I have just read the practice direction to see whether it would be possible to use the transcript for the purposes of an appeal and I note that this is not mentioned.
Does anyone know how long it is taking to get them?
Does anyone have any views on using a transcript in an appeal?
Never heard of a transcript being used for an appeal before. However, I cannot see any reason it cannot be used use for additional evidence. The Applications to Tribunals (s.69-71) MHA (1983) in general discusses an application being made, the context of which is not succinctly clarified.
A transcript of any nature has intellectual property rights attached to it. Thus, the owner would be the MoJ in this case. Accordingly consent would need to be obtained since it cannot be reused in its entirety, published or disseminated without their permission. If you request consent for its use, the MoJ will be able to state in the first instance the action you seek is justifiable or not.
Thank you Kyle
I did not understand what you meant by this-could you explain?
Also, I am fairly sure that ‘intellectual property rights’ do not relate to court transcripts although, of course, they are subject to non-disclosure rules.
Can I ask where this info comes from?
Regards
Karen
Hi Karen,
Maybe we are talking at cross purposes. Are you wishing to make an appeal on the information from the original MHRT please?
If so, the appeal can go ahead according to:
The Tribunal Procedure (First-tier Tribunal) (Health, Education and Social Care Chamber) Rules 2008 (making an appeal)
Or, can access via: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/663c9fa81c82a7597d4f333e/consolidated-FtT-HESCC-Rules.pdf
The question being what is it in the transcript which is going to allow the hearing to take please? What is the time periods from the original appeal for a second appeal to take place? Lastly, be sending the appeal information the MoJ will state if this is permissible in the first place using their transcript. But then, if it is the case there is an error in law, why not the upper chamber?
That is provided I understood this rightly in the first place…
Dear Kyle
I am afraid that none of what you say makes any sense. I am not sure whether you are trying to use a chatbot or something?
Anyway - thank you for trying to answer my question - which nobody else has!
The transcript could be useful if the Ground of Appeal is that the Tribunal had no evidence or not enough evidence to form its decision. I cannot imagine the request being refused if this is the reason.
Whether or not permission is given for the use of a transcript as evidence in an appeal is a matter for the Upper Tribunal to decide (para 55 of the Presidential Guidance Note 3 of 2023).
I have no idea how long it takes. The link estimates a cost of £500 per half day. I have no idea how accurate the transcription service is or whether you can challenge it if the issue is crucial.
Thank you Barry - that is helpful and I suppose the first question is whether the LAA would pay to get the transcript.
I note that in the recent 11(7) (a) case there was a dispute about the evidence but the transcript was not obtained.
Just to flag as someone did on the R.11(7)(a) post that the hearing was in 2022, about 18 months before remote hearings started being recorded.
What’s the benefit of a transcription compared to requesting the actual recording & submitting it into evidence but quoting the parts you’re relying upon? I can imagine the request for the recording would be substantially quicker and without the transcription cost.
Thanks Zac- I keep forgetting that the 11(7) (a) case is 2022.
The PD states that you can only apply for a recording in exceptional circumstances.
According to the following guidance legal aid is available for an appeal on a point of law. (Not clear if this means without means-testing.) So presumably NOT on a point of evidence.
You can nevertheless apply for help with cost of transcription (ie means-tested) using form EX105.
Thank you Barry-that is very helpful.