Police interview of autistic person without appropriate adult

Law and practice Other
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If the police are called to someone in a care home displaying challenging behaviour, taken away unaccompanied by staff, locked up in a police cell overnight, interviewed without an appropriate adult.

The individual is autistic and vulnerable, but the police have not been informed of this by the home and proceed with the interview. The police notify the nearest living relative, who informs them that the person has autism. However, the police do not believe them and refuse to allow them to be the ‘appropriate adult.’

The duty solicitor is also unaware of the individual’s autism, as police have inaccurately stated the person has ‘multiple mental health issues,’ which is incorrect since autism is not a mental health issue.

It appears that they did not have an 'appropriate adult` present during the interview.
The solicitor answer to this was at least this person did not say anything at all during the interview, but he also was not informed that person autistic. When he was also offered proof by the nearest living relative, he told them never to call again and hung up.
Is this behaviour unacceptable, if so, what action, if any should be taken?

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Just because the person has autism does not necessarily mean he requires an appropriate adult whilst he is being read his rights and to also be present during his interview. i.e. do we think the likes of Elon Musk has an appropriate adult with all his business decision because he has autism… unlikely

Does the male have 24x7 carers with him who act as an appropriate adult with all his decision making and/or is on a DOLS? Also how old is he? I am guessing an adult? and what was the outcome of the alleged crime? Also bear in mind for certain offences Police can also charge without interview.

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I have no intention of answering your invasive questions and believe you have missed the point by making any comparison with Elon Musk.

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Thank you Kyle
You have given me a lot of useful information which I intend to pursue all aspects of it, I believe in accountability and the right to speak up to protect others who might find themselves in the same situation.

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The following is opinion and not advice because I owe no one on social media any fiduciary duties. Your question was primarily connected to the behaviour of a solicitor as your question was sufficiently proximate to a description of the solicitor’s behaviour - and was not further particularised.

Analysis

  1. There is reasonably reliable information that the individual has an autistic disorder.
  2. Autism in a mental disorder as categorised in ICD-10 and ICD-11 (freely available online)
  3. The Police have reportedly failed to consider and act accordingly on that information.
  4. There is an appearance of Violation of PACE Guidelines: Under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE) and especially the accompanying Codes of Practice (notably Code C), there is a clear mandate to ensure that vulnerable individuals (including those with conditions such as autism) receive adequate support during detention and questioning. When reliable information about autism is available, the police are expected to assess the detainee’s capacity to understand the process and communicate effectively. Failing to appoint an appropriate adult in these circumstances is a prima facie breach of these guidelines.

Unfortunately, autism is ‘a mental health issue’ for the purposes of the law and guidelines the Police are required to follow. [I am unable to debate that further]

The duty solicitor’s position may be cause for a complaint to the Solicitor’s Regulatory Authority. [Caution: I am not inciting you to do this and this post is not advice.]

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A person with autism may not ‘require’ an appropriate adult. However, that is a determination to be made after following the law and underlying Codes of Practice applicable to such a person.

If Elon Musk was so unfortunate to be held in police custody in the UK, the law and codes of practice would apply equally. After that process is completed it may well be the case that he would not require an appropriate adult. Or, in his case due to his Billionaire status (currently estimated USD$343 billion) Dollar status he could simply dispense with ‘appropriate adult’ at the outset and hire a a few high-powered Kings Counsels.

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Thank you for your reply.

I gave the solicitor opportunity to explain, he ignored me. Therefore, I escalated my complaint to his superior, but I didn’t receive a satisfactory answer.
I had sent a form from the person indicating I act on their behalf. He dismissed this, stating that it was essentially a form by myself, appointing myself, and that would need direct contact from the person themselves to revisit the matter.
That`s helpful to know that “failing to appoint an appropriate adults in these circumstances is a prima facie breach of these guidelines.”

Is it my responsibility to prove the vulnerable person did not have adequate support during and questioning, only this may prove difficult, if the solicitor and police would not accept proof of the person’s autism, and the police quote “data protection”.

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I used the word “issue”, but autism is not a mental illness, nor a learning disability, autistic people can suffer from mental illness, LD, or both.

[Admin note: The following was unattributed and not acknowledged as a quotation, but was copied, with the paragraphs rearranged, from Is Autism a Mental Illness or a Disability? - entivabehavioralhealth]

In the medical field, autism is recognized as a neurodevelopmental disorder. It is diagnosed based on specific criteria outlined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5).

According to the DSM-5, autism is characterized by difficulties in social communication and interaction, as well as restricted and repetitive behaviors. These symptoms are typically present early in childhood and can significantly impact an individual’s daily functioning.

…

Autism is classified as a neurodevelopmental disorder despite being listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5).

Unlike mental illnesses, which often involve changes in mood, thinking, or behavior, autism is characterized by differences in brain development that are present from early childhood. People with autism may experience challenges in certain areas, but these challenges stem from neurological differences rather than mental health disorders.

…

When discussing autism, a common question arises: Is it a mental illness or a disability? Understanding the nature of autism can be confusing because it affects people in different ways.

Some might think of autism as a mental illness, while others see it as a disability. To clarify, autism is a developmental condition that influences how a person interacts with the world around them, communicates, and processes information.

Below I have briefly copied extracts from just some of the associations disputing autism as a mental health condition

Mind

Autism and mental health - Mind
Autism isn’t a mental health problem. But if you’re autistic you may be more likely to experience a mental health problem

National Autistic Society

Mental health - National Autistic Society
Autism is not a mental health problem but autistic people can have good and bad mental health like anyone else.

Entiva Behavioural Health

In the medical field, autism is recognized as a neurodevelopmental disorder. It is diagnosed based on specific criteria outlined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5)

According to the DSM-5, autism is characterized by difficulties in social communication and interaction, as well as restricted and repetitive behaviours. These symptoms are typically present early in childhood and can significantly impact an individual’s daily functioning.Understanding the relationship between autism and mental health is crucial in providing comprehensive care and support for individuals on the autism spectrum.

While autism is not a mental illness, there is a higher prevalence of co-occurring mental health conditions among autistic individuals compared to the general population.

Brian Curley, Motivity

One of the most common misconceptions that hinders understanding and support for autistic individuals is the belief that autism is a mental illness. It’s important to understand the distinguishing factors that define a mental condition as a disorder or illness.

Mental illness is characterized by patterns that are associated with distress and disability. These patterns can lead to impairments in essential areas of functioning, an increased risk of death, and dependency.

Mental Health Bill [HL]: HL Bill 47 of 2024–25

The draft bill was introduced in the of Lords on 6 November 2024 and was scheduled for its second reading on 25 November 2024. I believe it has now had its second reading and has passed to the House of Commons.

I have extracted some brief information, but is too to include in its entirety.:-

[Admin note: The following was unattributed and not acknowledged as a quotation, but was copied, with some material missing, from Mental Health Bill explained: how changes affect nursing staff | RCN Magazine | Royal College of Nursing]

What is being proposed in the Mental Health Bill 2025?
Stopping the unnecessary detention of people with a learning disability and/or autism, by creating a 28-day limit for detention, unless they have a co-occurring mental health condition that requires hospital treatment`

[Admin note: The following was unattributed and not acknowledged as a quotation, but was copied from Government Unveils its New Mental Health Bill]

  • Strengthening review processes and protections for autistic patients in mental health hospitals
  • Enhancing duties to provide adequate and high-quality support for autistic people in the community
  • Closing inappropriate alternative routes to detention
  • Ensuring treatment in a mental health hospital is always therapeutically beneficial

Legislative reform is just the start. Too often, autistic people are developing mental illnesses and reaching crisis point because their needs aren’t being met in the community. Investment in community services must come hand-in-hand with reform. This means developing and maintaining high-quality and accessible mental health services for autistic people that can offer the holistic and individualised care that they sorely need.

The Bill will now go through the Parliamentary process, starting in the Lords, where it can be strengthened. During this time, we will continue working to ensure the Bill provides the greatest protection for autistic people, as well as campaigning for much-needed investment in community services that work for all autistic people.

Tim Nicholls, Assistant Director of Policy, Research and Strategy at the National Autistic Society, said:

"This is a once in a generation chance to end the human rights scandal of autistic people being inappropriately detained in mental health hospitals.

"Autism is not a mental health condition, but currently 1,385 autistic people are held in mental health hospitals when many could be better supported in their homes surrounded by their loved ones. Instead, they face detention for an average of five years, and risk being subject to unnecessary restraint, overmedication, and solitary confinement.

“We have campaigned for years to reform the outdated Mental Health Act and protect autistic people’s human rights. That is what this Bill must do. But changing the law is just part of what’s needed. Without investing in making sure the right support is available everywhere, autistic people will still face this inequality.”

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No. And explaining why will take probably 1000 plus words of legalese. The law is clear enough.

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And what I said was

I said I would not be entering a debate about that. The magic words were ‘for the purposes of the law and guidelines…’

On the issue of ‘mental illness’ - the term is alive and anchored in minds when the world has moved on. The correct terminology is ‘mental disorder’ as you cited from DSM-V-TR - and ‘mental disorder’ is correct from ICD-10 and ICD-11.

Much of your response is connected to the matter of people with autism being detained under the law [at this time MHA 1983 (Amended 2007)] and in the future a new Act yet to arrive.) That’s an entirely separate topic and debate.

You quote authority figures - and therefore the a debate or discussion then pivots around ‘which authority’ will prevail. People can pick whichever they like.

Your Brian Curley at Motivity - claims expertise in “ABA Therapy Software Expert | Investor in Sports & Biomedical Ventures” (20) Brian Curley | LinkedIn

The poor man has contradicted himself on what you have taken from Google shopping Is Autism a Mental Illness? But wait - how? His definition of mental illness “Mental illness is characterized by patterns that are associated with distress and disability. These patterns can lead to impairments in essential areas of functioning, an increased risk of death, and dependency.” is exactly what happens for many people with autism. So on the one hand he is saying autism is not a mental illness but then his definition clearly includes it as a mental illness. But…but… anything is possible on social media - a thing can be one and it’s opposite at the same time. As a far as ‘authority’ goes Curley is no better authority than me! Ooo…oooo!! Ouch!

But wait - your quotation from ABA therapy website in your Google Shopping has a remarkable resemblance to Brian Curley’s expertise by his self-declaration. ABA therapy is primarily for children as per “….committed to help every child actualize that potential” No problem - I’m aware that autism develops in childhood.

As for Mind - claiming national authority status - I assert that Mind has been repeatedly quoted - and they are wrong! We now have health services workers quoting Mind on the particular ‘issue’ at caption. The phenomenon is well encapsulated in Lee McIntyre’s book Post-Truth (The MIT Press Essential Knowledge series): Amazon.co.uk: McIntyre, Lee: 9780262535045: Books - which is basically if ‘everybody’ is repeatedly saying the same thing it must be true. I was witness to a whole load of confusion in LD services as a result of Mind’s assertion. I specifically demolished Mind on their statements: Disorders of intellectual development - Investigative Psychiatry - evidence that I saw and experienced. [I indemnify the owner of this forum from all lawsuits arising from my assertion, so that fear of lawsuits does not prohibit an open debate.]

The WHO factsheet (June 2022) states,

A mental disorder is characterised by a clinically significant disturbance in an individual’s cognition, emotional regulation, or behaviour. It is usually associated with distress or impairment in important areas of functioning. There are many different types of mental disorders. Mental disorders may also be referred to as mental health conditions. The latter is a broader term covering mental disorders, psychosocial disabilities and (other) mental states associated with significant distress, impairment in functioning, or risk of self-harm.

The ‘no mental illness’ lobby has been instrumental in discriminating against people with personality disorders i.e. ‘She doesn’t have a mental illness - why is she even admitted here?!!’ - words I have repeatedly heard in health services when a person with PD has been admitted to hospital.

ASD and PD are both mental disorders - and both are associated to varying degrees with certain kinds of mental disabilities. The law makes no distinction between who has a mental illness or not - for the purposes of admission to a hospital.

Admission to hospital is not about the circumstances in which a person ought to be provided with an appropriate adult according to law.

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Thank you.
I have taken this one step forward with the solicitor concerned, he chooses to ignore me, as does his next in line.
I dont feel I can or should ignore this, its important so I will do some research,1000 plus words is a lot to plough through, is there a pointer for finding these words, then I can make the decision armed with the right information to complain to the SRA.

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Got it now, thank you again.

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You may be surprised how intelligent AI software is at assisting. Of course GIGO applies: if you give it garbage you get back garbage. It’s not a mind reader.

There is a range of FREE AI software to pick from online: Qwen, Gemini, DeepSeek, Tulu3, Claude, Microsoft Copilot, or plain old ChatGPT. No panic attacks today - kids in schools are using all this stuff, which is causing a bit of a nightmare for teachers who have to mark their assignments, cuz they’re coming out ‘too good’. LOL! This does not mean that AI is perfect. It makes some wild errors on occasions but less wild and far less frequently than humans. Disclaimers from providers apply to use of all AI software.

For nearly every situation I have to take action on the following are my key steps:

  1. Points First Summary (issue identification)
  • Clearly identify the issues or matters to be addressed.
  • Summarise the key points or arguments upfront to provide focus and direction for the analysis.
    This part must truly be a summary - not a dissertation.
  1. The Evidence and Facts (or Reported Facts)
  • Gather and present the relevant facts of the case.
  • Include evidence (e.g. witness reports, documents, physical evidence, contents of notes made with approximate dates and times if possible) that supports
  • Distinguish between undisputed facts and disputed facts where relevant, as this will shape the analysis.
  1. Reasonable Inferences (application of rules or law to facts)
  • Draw logical inferences from the facts.
  • Apply the relevant legal principles, statutes, case law, regulations, standards or precedents to the facts.
  • Analyse how the law or standards support or undermines the arguments or claims being made.
    At all costs avoid conflating facts with reasonable inferences - it’s terrible mistake.
  1. Final Conclusions
  • Summarise the findings based on the analysis.
  • Provide a clear and reasoned conclusion that answers the legal questions or resolves the issues identified in step 1.
  • If applicable, suggest potential outcomes or remedies.
  1. Statement of desired outcome or remedies.

Overall tips gathered over the years
I avoid the following:
Intensifiers: Words like “very,” “extremely,” “really,” “absolutely,” or “incredibly” are used to add emphasis. However, they often come across as vague or hyperbolic if not backed by concrete evidence or detail.

  • Example: “The defendant was very reckless.” (This is less effective than providing specific evidence of recklessness, such as “The defendant drove at 90 mph in a 30 mph zone.”)

Qualifiers: Words like “somewhat,” “quite,” “rather,” or “fairly” can also weaken your writing by making statements seem tentative or imprecise.

  • Example: “The evidence is quite compelling.” (This is less persuasive than “The evidence is compelling because X, Y, and Z.”)

Note carefully: all the above may not be relevant to your situation and is not advice to you. Whatever you do, tailor it to your specific needs.

In my situations I ensure that each paragraph is numbered and perfectly formatted:

  1. 1.15 line spacing,
  2. 10pt spacing above paragraphs and 6pt below.
  3. all text justified.
  4. all hanging indents properly aligned using styles.
  5. all fonts consistent in body text usually 11 to 12pt Aptos or Calibri (using body text style and numeration styles.)
  6. any headings are 13 or 14pt.
  7. all numeration of paragraphs checked for accuracy.
  8. everything spell checked and grammar checked.
  9. MS Word ‘read aloud’ used to proof read document, and make adjustments.

I can say with confidence that 99% of all NHS secretaries and admins (over my 35 years of experience) cannot do the above, so you may struggle a bit. But YouTube is great for further tips on ‘how to’. Consider time spent as an investment for the future.

The worse sort of submissions are ‘all over the place’, long winded, sentences too long, and difficult to read. Always keep in mind that you may understand something but will the reader understand it as well as you do? It’s easy to make assumptions.

Good submissions have a higher probability of not being binned or given lesser priority. It’s common sense. Practice makes ‘near perfect’

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Thank you for all that information, it will help, I recognise my faults as I read it.

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I need to read that few times to absorb it, and a few more times after that. Nonetheless thank you once again; this is precisely what I was seeking. You cannot imagine helpful this will be I will print it and keep by me while I work.

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