Well done you!
This is the tip of the iceberg.
Again, many, many thanks.
Rosemary
Thanks Stephen., very helpful. I have put forward three other homes that offer specialised dementia care. The SW said that my Mum does not have any “primary Health Needs” so residential only is the only option. These homes offering specilaised Dementia care are residential with nursing and she would be in the dementia part.
I think she has been put here as a cheap option despite saying because she is 117 all her care is funded and there is no ceiling.
Thanks Ian this looks interesting. I have to go out to collect her medical records now but will give it time it deserves to investigate your information properly.
Thanks Chris No I haven’t seen this again have to go out but will give it a good read when i get back
Hi Everyone
Qucik update I have just been for records and to visit another care home who specialise in complex dementis. Very nice…and factual. The Main administator told me the care home fees. I told her Mum was down as Cat 3. She stated that Cat 3 is NURSING!!! which I wanted to know from SW who avoided my questions repeatedly. Cat 1 & 2 are residential only, the home Mum is in has always been CAT 1 or 2.
So have been proved right, she is in wrong type of home. I will keep chipping at this till I finally get the answers, legal knowledge etc.
Now going to sit down with a coffee and digest all the info you kindly sent. Many thanks to you all fr your help. No doubt I will be back later
I’ve been waiting for the ombudsman to reply to my complaint since February – can’t believe it takes this long!
I found that Council have to give you the choice of your preferred home providing you meet criteria, which is
The preferred accommodation is of the same type that the LA has decided to provide or arrange;
It is suitable for the person’s needs (i.e. the needs identified in the CPA care plan);
It is available;
Where the accommodation is not provided by the LA, the provider of the accommodation agrees to provide the accommodation to the person on the LA’s terms;
That is in legislation. Also the SW hs said Mum is NOT allowed to top up if accomodation costs more. I also found this
The introduction of patient choice for s.117 aftercare accommodation
Section 75 of the Care Act inserts a new s.117A into the MHA which permits the Secretary of State to make regulations that allow a s.117 patient to express a preference for a particular type of accommodation where the accommodation is being provided by a local authority discharging the s.117 duties.
Also my Mum IS allowed to pay a top up which SW said she couldn’t on 117
Where the cost of the preferred accommodation is in excess of what the LA would expect to pay, the LA must be satisfied that the person being provided with accommodation is willing and able to make a top up payment for the additional cost and the payer enters into a written agreement with the LA to pay this additional cost.
and
Where a LA is providing or arranging accommodation as part of s.117 aftercare, it is open to the person or their family to make top-up payments to secure their preferred accommodation.
and
-
Choice – in this sense – refers to the assessed service user’s legal right to choose a provider of a package of services that includes accommodation, paid for and contracted for by a local authority.
-
Choice rights are rights to choose to which provider of accommodation of a given type, the council must then pay its money, for services to meet one’s needs**. A right, in this sense, refers to an enforceable legal right, ie something that must be done by a council, or else it has acted unlawfully**.
So that’s sorted that out!!
Another article states that
- Adult social care staff’s not knowing about these rights is obviously maladministration, because it would mean practising on a day-to-day basis in care planning, and hospital discharge, without delivering people’s legal rights .So it should be complained about and then taken to the Local Government Ombudsman by the person…oops SW is in trouble!!!
Also this aticle explains what is the right accomodation
In R (Mwanza) v Greenwich LBC and Bromley LBC [2010] EWHC 1462 (Admin**),** the High Court held that accommodation is a “common need” for all people and that therefore, in order for accommodation to be an aftercare need it had to be “accommodation plus”, i.e. specialist enhanced accommodation that meets a need that arises from a person’s mental disorder. Essentially, the crux is that the person’s need for accommodation is over and above every human being’s common need for shelter and housing. This means that the accommodation needed to have additional features to it and that those additional features needed to arise from or meet a need from the person’s mental disorder – over and above a need for basic shelter.
I hope that all this info will help somene in same position as me or even partly.
From the email I received re Mum’s care I think the SW/CCG will be going down the “best interests” road saying that the move would “unsettle” her. Bring it on I have evidence that when she was moved from a 6 month mental hospital placement according to LA she was “settled” in her new placement within 2 weeks lol so why should this be any diferent. If they refuse to move her as we meet all the criteia they have to inform me in writing and if I object I can go further.
I am now angry and taken off my kid gloves, emotional head and are ready to challenge, battle and do what ever it takes to make Mum’s time the most comfortable, happiest etc as I can.!!! As someone said, can’t remember lol “Bring it on!”
Just to re-iterate: as you have LPA Welfare, it is for you, not the Council, to make the best interests decision, choosing from the available options.
Dear Pam
I wanted to add to Stephen’s point about your position as LPA for personal welfare. From your post, it appears your mother is under the Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards (DoLS). One of the safeguards in the law is that as her attorney (officially ‘donee’) the DoLS best interests assessor must ask you if you refuse the accommodation.This is called a ‘No Refusals’ assessment and should have been completed before the deprivation of liberty can be authorised. Please see paragraphs 4.26 and 4.27 of the DoLS Code of Practice which explains this: https://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default/files/Deprivation%20of%20liberty%20safeguards%20code%20of%20practice.pdf
As your mum’s RPR (representative) under DoLS, the local authority is legally obliged to send you a copy of the DoLS authorisation (also known as a ‘Form 5’) together with a copy of the assessments. You can check whether these assessments accurately recorded your view as attorney.
If it is the case that the local authority went ahead and authorised the deprivation of liberty, ignoring your objection, you may want to take legal advice as the deprivation of liberty is likely to be unlawful. Solicitors are available on www.solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk
Best wishes
Aasya Mughal
Edge Training & Consultancy Ltd
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Hello Pam,
Can I ask you what was the process of receiving Section 117 aftercare like? Was there mention of top up fees for particular care homes and any financial assessments carried out? Hope you can help on these points, you can contact me directly if you don’t want to put details on forum. Thanks AJM
Hello AJM
The process is that the hospital do a CHC Assessment (Look online for CHC) Ask to be present so they don’t downplay your Mum’s needs. This then goes to the Clinical Commissioning Group. Between the CCG & Local Authourity they come up with a budget and then the SW should (by law) give you a choice of homes. Do not let them fob you off at this point. Insist on your right of choice. I am off to watch Gine/Fred tc and rather tired but tomorrow I will send you the info I have found
Kind Rgards
Pam
Hello Pam,
That’s great, helping me a lot with this information! I only have EPA for property/finance not LPA for welfare/health. Mum on Section 3 at moment and in hospital so don’t know if could arrange for solicitor to do new LPA for welfare/health whilst in hosp. AJM
I think if she has been sectioned under s3 it will be difficult to now get an LPA as her mental capacity won’t stand up to scrutiny. I am not to sure about this so cannot advise. I suggest you ring a solicitor/citizen’s advice and get some free adice…
I think maybe you could go to court and ask to be a court appointed deputy ?? again not 10%£ sur.
e
https://www.bma.org.uk/media/1850/bma-best-interests-toolkit-2019.pdf has info on this.
Hi AJM
Aftercare is free and as you have a s3 on Mum will remain so until she doesn’t need it any more.
Choice of accommodation provider rights are extended to s117 patients, in placement mode The comparable rate for the calculation of a top-up is done by reference to the council’s usual rate, because there is no entitlement to a personal budget for an s117 patient as they are not receiving services under the Care Act. The client or a relative or any third party can pay the top-up, even though the principal part of the package for the meeting of need is paid for by the State.
Choice agenda and top up payments:
Section 75 of the Care Act inserts a new s.117A into the MHA which permits the Secretary of State to make regulations that allow a s.117 patient to express a preference for a particular type of accommodation where the accommodation is being provided by a local authority discharging the s.117 duties.
117
Patient requires specialist, enhanced accommodation – i.e. “accommodation-plus”; and
That requirement arises from or is related to the patient’s mental disorder for which he was detained under a Qualifying Detention; and
The accommodation-plus reduces the risk of:
a. The patient’s mental state deteriorating; and
b. The likelihood of the patient requiring re-admission to hospital for treatment of his mental disorder.
The introduction of patient choice for s.117 aftercare accommodation
Section 75 of the Care Act inserts a new s.117A into the MHA which permits the Secretary of State to make regulations that allow a s.117 patient to express a preference for a particular type of accommodation where the accommodation is being provided by a local authority discharging the s.117 duties.
sorry forgot to send this
https://www.bevanbrittan.com/insights/articles/2017/section-117-aftercare-services-article-3-accommodation/
Also if you want your Mum to come home have a read of this, tells you about a personal health budget to help you with carers etc.
This is useful too.
Hello Pam, Thanks so much for your help and information. I’m going to spend some time getting familiar with it all and whatever else I can find out. Will be in touch. AJM
You’re welcome It is a minefield out there. I just google everything I’m not sure about even medical terms, medicines, law anything that will make it easier to deal with the SW’s etc Good luck
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