# Looking for older Court of Appeal judgments **URL:** \ **Category:** Other\ **Tags:** locating-judgment\ **Created:** [18 June 2021 12:59 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/looking-for-older-court-of-appeal-judgments/553 "2021-06-18T12:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/joolsleeds/32/56_2.png) [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Post date:** [18 June 2021 12:59 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/looking-for-older-court-of-appeal-judgments/553/1 "2021-06-18T12:59:21Z")
I’m not a lawyer but am looking to find the Court of Appeal judgments in the following cases: R v Fleming (1993) 14 Cr App R (S) 151 and R v Mitchell (1997) 1 CAR (S) 90 I can’t find them anywhere online or on BALII (& not quite sure how to decipher the acronyms for more clues). Might they be available in a library anywhere or in a court report? Or does anyone have any suggestions how to obtain them? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Tamburrt](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Tamburrt](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Tamburrt)\ **Post date:** [18 June 2021 18:53 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/looking-for-older-court-of-appeal-judgments/553/2 "2021-06-18T18:53:32Z")
My memory is that these are Canadian cases. Not sure if that’s correct. Before advising you further about these can you confirm that it is your understanding that the cases are from Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/joolsleeds/32/56_2.png) [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Post date:** [18 June 2021 19:56 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/looking-for-older-court-of-appeal-judgments/553/3 "2021-06-18T19:56:49Z")
My understanding they’re English cases. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/jonathan/32/88_2.png) [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Post date:** [19 June 2021 08:02 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/looking-for-older-court-of-appeal-judgments/553/4 "2021-06-19T08:02:47Z")
I’ll look for these cases, but in the meantime the [Cardiff Index to Legal Abbreviations](http://www.legalabbrevs.cardiff.ac.uk/) is a useful place for deciphering citations. Cr App R (S) is Criminal Appeal Reports (Sentencing), and CAR is listed as an alternative abbreviation for Cr App R. [CCR is Canadian Criminal Reports](https://libguides.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/c.php?g=422951&p=2888415), so I can see how the confusion around CAR arose! ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/jonathan/32/88_2.png) [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Post date:** [28 June 2021 21:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/looking-for-older-court-of-appeal-judgments/553/5 "2021-06-28T21:34:10Z")
These Court of Appeal judgments are now available on Mental Health Law Online: - [R v Fleming (1993) 14 Cr App R (S) 151](https://www.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/R_v_Fleming_(1993)_14_Cr_App_R_(S)_151) - [R v Mitchell (1997) 1 Cr App R (S) 90](https://www.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/R_v_Mitchell_(1997)_1_Cr_App_R_(S)_90) I can see why you were interested in them as both are cases of a patient killing again while subject to restricted hospital orders. The current guidance on sentencing seems to be more flexible than it was then. ---
**Author:** ![Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/joolsleeds/32/56_2.png) [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Post date:** [29 June 2021 09:43 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/looking-for-older-court-of-appeal-judgments/553/6 "2021-06-29T09:43:14Z")
Thank you very much. For anyone interested in the Mitchell case, here is the very detailed [Inquiry report](http://www.hundredfamilies.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Jason-Mitchell-Dec-1994.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/joolsleeds/32/56_2.png) [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Post date:** [30 June 2021 14:39 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/looking-for-older-court-of-appeal-judgments/553/7 "2021-06-30T14:39:13Z")
Also, please does anyone have full texts of the judgments of: R v Birch (1989) 1 Cr App R (S) 202 and R v Mbatha (1985) 7 Cr.App.R(S) 373 Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/jonathan/32/88_2.png) [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Post date:** [4 July 2021 20:42 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/looking-for-older-court-of-appeal-judgments/553/8 "2021-07-04T20:42:24Z")
These two judgments are now on Mental Health Law Online: - [R v Birch (1990) 90 Cr App R 78](https://www.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/R_v_Birch_(1990)_90_Cr_App_R_78) - [R v Mbatha (1985) 7 Cr App R (S) 373](https://www.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/R_v_Mbatha_(1985)_7_Cr_App_R_(S)_373) ---
**Author:** ![Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/joolsleeds/32/56_2.png) [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Post date:** [4 July 2021 21:30 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/looking-for-older-court-of-appeal-judgments/553/9 "2021-07-04T21:30:23Z")
Thank you very much!