# Lawfulness of back-to-back CTO recalls **URL:** \ **Category:** Mental Health Act\ **Tags:** cto\ **Created:** [27 September 2023 07:43 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-back-to-back-cto-recalls/1888 "2023-09-27T07:43:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Post date:** [27 September 2023 07:43 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-back-to-back-cto-recalls/1888/1 "2023-09-27T07:43:42Z")
If a patient is recall, but they can’t get an AMHP out in time to complete the revoke, When the 72hrs is up the authority holding the CTO transfers to the authority to the hospital they are at and the RC there, immediately completes another recall, one minute after the 72hrs was up. Is this ethical and legal to do this, any views would be appreciated. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Post date:** [28 September 2023 09:06 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-back-to-back-cto-recalls/1888/2 "2023-09-28T09:06:41Z")
Can anyone clarify is it lawful to complete two recalls back to back, as couldn’t get an AMHP out in time for the revoke Many thanks ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Rook](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Richard\_Rook](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Richard_Rook)\ **Post date:** [28 September 2023 17:07 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-back-to-back-cto-recalls/1888/3 "2023-09-28T17:07:32Z")
It may be ethical (given the invidious position the second doctor was put in) but I’d be surprised if it were lawful. As far as I know it’s never been decided by a court, so there’s no definitive answer. But I’d have thought it’s strongly arguable that issuing a second recall basically just to evade the time limits in the Act would be using the power for an improper purpose and therefore unlawful. (Conceivably it might be different if the patient’s condition had, say, suddenly deteriorated at the end of the first recall period). But there are also arguments the other way. There was an interestimg discussion on here about an analogous case about section 5 a while ago: > [@Repeated use of s5(2)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/repeated-use-of-s5-2/957): > > Got a situation where a patient has been placed on [s5](https://www.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/MHA_1983_s5)(2) and in the last hour of the 72, was told there was no AMHP but they would be putting another 5(2) in place. The notes reflect this. In the MHA manual it states ‘as soon as the power is invoked, arrangements should be made for the patient to be assessed…’ The [Code](https://www.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/Mental_Health_Act_1983_Codes_of_Practice) states at ‘18.38 Detention under section 5(2) or 5(4) cannot be renewed, but that does not prevent it being used again on a future occasion if necessary’. This situation is in W… ---
**Author:** ![hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Post date:** [29 September 2023 07:07 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-back-to-back-cto-recalls/1888/4 "2023-09-29T07:07:57Z")
Thank you think i’ll pass to our legal dept ---
**Author:** ![NeilSanyal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/49beb7/32.png) [@NeilSanyal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/NeilSanyal)\ **Post date:** [29 September 2023 11:20 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-back-to-back-cto-recalls/1888/5 "2023-09-29T11:20:24Z")
This certainly not legal but is increasingly happening in our broken mental health system as risk situations cannot be left to just happen because the law doesn’t allow for them in some extreme cases. In the local inpatient hospital where I was working until July this year, some time last year a young 14 year-old girl was held illegally for three days in the s.136 suite bed because she was found undetainable by myself and two s.12 doctors but the parents refused to collect her or let her return home and the LA Children’s Social Care Team refused to look for foster care! ---
**Author:** ![hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Post date:** [29 September 2023 11:35 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-back-to-back-cto-recalls/1888/6 "2023-09-29T11:35:43Z")
Thank you, its gone to our legal dept for clarification