# FOIA request to NHS England: Section 135/136 Mental Health Act Detentions, subsequent Common Law Detentions and other actions **URL:** \ **Category:** Mental Health Act\ **Tags:** s135, foia, s136\ **Created:** [9 March 2025 16:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416 "2025-03-09T16:03:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/captainwalker/32/159_2.png) [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Post date:** [9 March 2025 16:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/1 "2025-03-09T16:03:55Z")
Following on from this [National Nightmares: s136(2A) and s136B time limits - Law and practice / Mental Health Act - MHLO Forum](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/national-nightmares-s136-2a-and-s136b-time-limits/3246), suggestions from 7 people to act outside the law (aka ultra vires) and my knowledge of a national situation - I have put in a lengthy FOIA request to NHS England which everyone can find here: [Section 135/136 Mental Health Act Detentions, subsequent Common Law Detentions and other actions. - a Freedom of Information request to NHS England - WhatDoTheyKnow](https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/section_135136_mental_health_act) As I put my money where my mouth is I am prepared to pay up to £2500 of costs, in excess of the £450 limit, for the information. I will make no profits nor acquire any material or non-material advantages for my costs. I have taken action purely in the interests of what is right and upholding the Will of Parliament. If get fobbed off by NHS England I do not intend to curl up in a ball and sulk. I’ll move on to the next pubic authority that may hold the information. I could well expect to be told ‘_Ask the CQC_’ and there I shall go next. But NHS England is the true guardian of statutory power in health services - that’s why I went there first. No one is above the law (except certain persons on the other side of the pond). The information I may receive eventually can be used for Judicial Review - which I may fund myself or crowd fund. And I do not seek any material or non-material advantages by doing so. A show of support from learned persons in this forum would assist my morale, as I expect to be sent packing by the authorities. I am grateful for your kind and not so kind comments. ---
**Author:** ![MentalHealthCop](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@MentalHealthCop](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MentalHealthCop)\ **Post date:** [9 March 2025 16:47 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/2 "2025-03-09T16:47:57Z")
Be prepared for NHS England telling you they don’t hold all the data you’re asking for. Anything they might be prepared to share will, by definition, be highly partial. ---
**Author:** ![CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/captainwalker/32/159_2.png) [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Post date:** [9 March 2025 17:15 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/3 "2025-03-09T17:15:22Z")
> [@MentalHealthCop](#): > > Be prepared for NHS England telling you they don’t hold all the data you’re asking for. Of course, as I mentioned. > [@MentalHealthCop](#): > > Anything they might be prepared to share will, by definition, be highly partial. But they don’t know me and what I am capable of. My War Room is ready!! ![warroom-image3](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/uploads/default/original/1X/cbeb6c95f53fb514bd8cbd4a251b3e827c3670fe.jpeg) [I own copyright to the image - just in case] ---
**Author:** ![Kirk](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Kirk](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kirk)\ **Post date:** [9 March 2025 17:38 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/4 "2025-03-09T17:38:19Z")
I wish you good luck on your tough journey. It seems incredulous that you have to take such action. There area already clear guidelines with the various acts. The CQC as a complete waste of time and are not fit for purpose.(Should be shut down) If a so called regulating body can not take action when presented with things that do not comply with legal and practice requirements then this action you are taking seems to be the only way. ---
**Author:** ![CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/captainwalker/32/159_2.png) [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Post date:** [9 March 2025 18:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/5 "2025-03-09T18:25:44Z")
> [@Kirk](#): > > I wish you good luck on your tough journey. Many thanks but I do not rely on luck from any source. I create my own probabilities to achieve my objectives. > [@Kirk](#): > > The CQC as a complete waste of time and are not fit for purpose.(Should be shut down) Stale news! 😂😆🙈 But good to hear it again. LOL! > [@Kirk](#): > > If a so called regulating body can not take action when presented with things that do not comply with legal and practice requirements then this action you are taking seems to be the only way. Too right! I’ve proved in another other thread from FOIA data on S62(1) situation, that they are instrumental in breaching their own code of practice (MHACOP) - 1. thereby causing all too willing psychiatrists needing to protect their food, to defer duties to nurses for PRN medication under said S62(1) 2. and practically indefinite prescribing under S62 for whenever a SOAD turns up. But. but…I sharpen my axe in readiness. The War Room is on high alert! DEFCON 1 SITUATION on a number of issues. ---
**Author:** ![Doctorcuratola](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctorcuratola](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Doctorcuratola)\ **Post date:** [10 March 2025 01:44 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/6 "2025-03-10T01:44:26Z")
Hi, I read your FOIA and also part of your blogs. Overall, what type of changes are you expecting if there is a Judicial Review? A more defined and flexible interpretation of the sections in question? ---
**Author:** ![CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/captainwalker/32/159_2.png) [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Post date:** [10 March 2025 08:47 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/7 "2025-03-10T08:47:03Z")
> [@Doctorcuratola](#): > > Overall, what type of changes are you expecting if there is a Judicial Review? A more defined and flexible interpretation of the sections in question? The aims and objectives of any Judicial Review are to say ‘You can’t just continue as usual like it’s nobody’s business’. You will be held to account.’ Winning a case is not the big objective. The lagal objectives of JR can be found on the Internet. What’s happening across the land is that everybody knows of lots of things that are wrong. But nobody is willing to take action. It’s like bystander apathy. The S135/136 issue is just the tip of an iceberg. I chose it because it’s one of the easiest to find evidence on. ---
**Author:** ![NeilSanyal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/49beb7/32.png) [@NeilSanyal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/NeilSanyal)\ **Post date:** [14 March 2025 20:49 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/8 "2025-03-14T20:49:59Z")
I admire you Russell. I think it is a brave ethical and principled stand. I think I have already said in this total thread, but if not here it anyway, that in my belief, illegal de facto practices have come about by default because of 14 years of gigantic cuts in resources, budgets and services in the health and social care sectors since 2010 , and the Police and Crime Act 2017, which reduced the total time s.136 and s.135 lasts from 72 to 24/36 hours. All the agencies that currently have to “fudge” the legal issues associated are not, in my belief, flouting the legal boundaries because they feel like it. If your FOI request results in any follow up, there is a cat’s chance in hell that any extra resources will be transferred into mental health services to allow agencies to keep within the law. This bleak situation will not improve for many years. So, in conclusion, I hope you don’t have too many expectations that the system will operate within legal boundaries any time soon. The best it could get is that everyone can approach government and tell them that it is not on! These are my views. I could be wrong of course. ---
**Author:** ![CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/captainwalker/32/159_2.png) [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Post date:** [15 March 2025 12:27 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/9 "2025-03-15T12:27:28Z")
> [@NeilSanyal](#): > > I think it is a brave ethical and principled stand. Keep in mind that I’m ‘a forensic’ - as is conceptualised by many in circles outside of ‘forensic psychiatry’. I have never had to cope with S135/136 related matters until 5 weeks ago. But I venture into ‘distant lands’ to gain a fuller perspective on what’s happening in UK psychiatry - so I delve into LD & Autism Services, Acute General Psychiatry, Older Persons Psychiatry, ADHD etc etc. My stint 5 weeks ago brought me face to face with this issue - which nationally seems to have been dealt as within the framework of a ‘new norm’ (post 2017). As you may not know, ‘forensics’ have been said to live in ‘different worlds’, are ‘pedantic’, ‘nit-picking’, ‘overly philosophical’, and ‘disconnected’. How do I know that? Cuz when I lurk among ‘other services’, those who haven’t caught on as to my ‘forensic’ status would blurt out such comments. And of course before I became a ‘forensic’, I also knew what the word on the block was. What’s the relevance of that? Read on. Step back and think about what you said, > [@NeilSanyal](#): > > All the agencies that currently have to “fudge” the legal issues associated are not, in my belief, flouting the legal boundaries because they feel like it. If your FOI request results in any follow up, there is a cat’s chance in hell that any extra resources will be transferred into mental health services to allow agencies to keep within the law. This bleak situation will not improve for many years. That encapsulates very well the ‘national sentiment’. As I’ve said several times before in different ways: The crowd determines what is to be done or not done - it harks back to primordial ‘herd instinct’. So - ‘everybody’ knows that the situation is real and nothing will change - therefore everyone or no one takes action, simply because taking action will be seen as an exercise in futility. We ought to know that that sort of mindset arises from the Seligman’s original ‘_Learned Helplessness_’ (late 1960s). But I say that in a new era well past all that, and into the era of ‘_ **Forced Hopelessness** _’. And now here I am ‘a forensic’ fighting where everybody else has been pushed into inertia. [**Caution** : I am NOT taking aim at you personally or professionally. This is about the national mindset/sentiment.] We often refer to ‘hearts and minds’ - where are they? Elsewhere - once it’s not your relative banged up in a gap between ‘laws’. I seen and heard enough of what’s going on in S136 suites. Most of the cases arriving there will be in the spread **between** ‘substance related’ and the all too popular ‘EUPD’. Of course some will be the ‘barn door’ person with pure psychosis or depression. Nonetheless most of these people willl be at the lower socio economic strata of society, limited in their mental estate and means to take action. Many don’t know what’s what - they have ‘no millions or billions to lose’. Oh no - you won’t find the likes of Musk, Branson or Dyson being banged up in a S136 suite, will you? But now as there is accelerating momentum in the UK to kick out Human Rights law in totality - oh yes read about it. Large swathes of the general public have been so influenced by our ‘masters’ in order to stop the boats firstly and because Human Rights laws have created ‘ludicrous situations’ in our courts. So any fight for Human Rights concerns is weakened at its base. [I’m an Human Rights Defender (HRD) - recognised as such by Amnesty International]. So - I very well know that my fight has a high probability of losing. HRDs dare to lose. @MentalHealthCop has had his big fight with these issues over the years and had been met with the utmost of ‘treacle’. [No Beds – part 2 – Mental Health Cop](https://mentalhealthcop.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/no-beds-part-2/) [No Beds – part 2 – Mental Health Cop](https://mentalhealthcop.wordpress.com/2013/02/07/no-beds-part-2/) and [What Does “Liable To Be Detained” Mean? – Mental Health Cop](https://mentalhealthcop.wordpress.com/2022/03/03/what-does-liable-to-be-detained-mean/) My ‘beloved’ RCPsych has been considering at glacial speed, the issues after CR213 has been taken down for ‘review’. [Frequently Asked Questions on the use of sections 135 and 136 of the Mental Health Act 1983, England and Wales](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/improving-care/campaigning-for-better-mental-health-policy/college-reports/2018-college-reports/CR213) And from Dec 2023 they must have been more aware of the issues, from this publication: [In the liminal spaces of mental health law – what to do when section 136 expires? - PMC](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10694690/) Well, whenever. I’m supposed to know - ‘these things take time’ (not a quotation of the RCPsych, just in case). In the mean time everybody can remain in limbo and collective inertia - aka _forced helplessness_. The way of ‘The Empire’ is that individuals must wait until higher authority takes action. Tough - I don’t do ‘ways of the Empire’! ![not Arnold Schwarzenegger](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/uploads/default/original/1X/b4c3d12c1f161d47367fbc41f1f0e2a4c0a68ec7.jpeg) [AI generated image - I own the copyright, just in case] My status as HRD means that I don’t stop - only death, incarceration in a Cat A facility or blacksite, or acute incapacity from illness stops me. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/jonathan/32/88_2.png) [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Post date:** [15 March 2025 14:24 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/10 "2025-03-15T14:24:27Z")
2 posts were split to a new topic: [Psychiatry](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/psychiatry/3460) ---
**Author:** ![CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/captainwalker/32/159_2.png) [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Post date:** [21 March 2025 14:27 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/11 "2025-03-21T14:27:35Z")
**Update** I’ve been sent elsewhere: [Section 135/136 Mental Health Act Detentions, subsequent Common Law Detentions and other actions. - a Freedom of Information request to NHS England - WhatDoTheyKnow](https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/section_135136_mental_health_act#incoming-2958957) Not a problem because the War Room was ready to send requests to every Trust in the land. But now it’s only 42 ICBs [Public authorities - Found 42 public authorities - WhatDoTheyKnow](https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/list/all?public_body_query=integrated+care+board&commit=Search) I’ll probably be able to knock that off in a week. East of England 1. NHS Bedfordshire, Luton and Milton Keynes ICB 2. NHS Cambridgeshire and Peterborough ICB 3. NHS Hertfordshire and West Essex ICB 4. NHS Mid and South Essex ICB 5. NHS Norfolk and Waveney ICB 6. NHS Suffolk and North East Essex ICB London 7. NHS North Central London ICB 8. NHS North East London ICB 9. NHS North West London ICB 10. NHS South East London ICB 11. NHS South West London ICB Midlands 12. NHS Birmingham and Solihull ICB 13. NHS Black Country ICB 14. NHS Coventry and Warwickshire ICB 15. NHS Derby and Derbyshire ICB 16. NHS Herefordshire and Worcestershire ICB 17. NHS Leicester, Leicestershire and Rutland ICB 18. NHS Lincolnshire ICB 19. NHS Northamptonshire ICB 20. NHS Nottingham and Nottinghamshire ICB 21. NHS Shropshire, Telford and Wrekin ICB 22. NHS Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent ICB North East and Yorkshire 23. NHS Humber and North Yorkshire ICB 24. NHS North East and North Cumbria ICB 25. NHS South Yorkshire ICB 26. NHS West Yorkshire ICB North West 27. NHS Cheshire and Merseyside ICB 28. NHS Greater Manchester ICB 29. NHS Lancashire and South Cumbria ICB South East 30. NHS Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire and Berkshire West ICB 31. NHS Frimley ICB 32. NHS Hampshire and Isle of Wight ICB 33. NHS Kent and Medway ICB 34. NHS Surrey Heartlands ICB 35. NHS Sussex ICB South West 36. NHS Bath and North East Somerset, Swindon and Wiltshire ICB 37. NHS Bristol, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire ICB 38. NHS Cornwall and The Isles Of Scilly ICB 39. NHS Devon ICB 40. NHS Dorset ICB 41. NHS Gloucestershire ICB 42. NHS Somerset ICB ---
**Author:** ![CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/captainwalker/32/159_2.png) [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Post date:** [24 March 2025 20:07 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/12 "2025-03-24T20:07:14Z")
Update to myself and others Having sent out 20 requests to ICBs (after learning that NHS England doesn’t have the data), one ICB has returned to say that they don’t have the data. > **[Freedom of Information Request - Section 135/136 Mental Health Act...](https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/freedom_of_information_request_s_1520#incoming-2961225)** > > Re: Freedom of Information Request - Section 135/136 Mental Health Act Detentions, subsequent Common Law Detentions and other actions. > > I am writing to make a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 for information regarding the expiry of... **Plan A** - was FOIA NHS England **Plan B** - was FOIA ICBs What ‘everybody’ expects is that I’ll roll over if each ICB in turn says the same thing. **Well here is Plan C** : 1. There are around 215 NHS Trusts in the UK. 2. I can easily dispatch 10 FOIA requests/per day, in 20 min. [I know how quickly I can send off, because I have kept a log an timed myself] 3. So I reckon that all Trusts in the land can be FOIA-ed within 28 days. Don’t wish me luck cuz I do not require luck. ![Mountains_and_minds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/uploads/default/original/1X/9de88eb98c99f4780361c2c7fc6a3390056cd153.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![EzmeBrack](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/439d5e/32.png) [@EzmeBrack](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/EzmeBrack)\ **Post date:** [26 January 2026 20:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/13 "2026-01-26T20:34:31Z")
Hi Russel, I hope you are well. I have just come across this and wondered if you ever received a response from the trusts you emailed with this? I have been going through a similar process and it’s proving very tricky to get the info!! Thank you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/user_avatar/forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/captainwalker/32/159_2.png) [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Post date:** [3 February 2026 00:13 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/foia-request-to-nhs-england-section-135-136-mental-health-act-detentions-subsequent-common-law-detentions-and-other-actions/3416/14 "2026-02-03T00:13:53Z")
> [@EzmeBrack](#): > > I hope you are well. I have just come across this and wondered if you ever received a response from the trusts you emailed with this? I have been going through a similar process and it’s proving very tricky to get the info!! Thank you 🙂 No ICB had the information. I had a strategy to FOIA all Trusts in the land. But I got bogged down with rubbish in two Trusts where I worked. One I had to sack for try to make me do illegal things. Then I got distracted publishing my first book, and finishing up two others. So, if you’re interested we could rekindle the idea and divvy up the effort. Half an half. If anybody wants to help lemme know. This is not an offer of employment or payment, just in case the AI that trawls these forums comes to think so and reports me to the authorities.