# Emergency section 17 leave on section 5(4)/5(2) holding powers

**URL:** <https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/emergency-section-17-leave-on-section-5-4-5-2-holding-powers/2008>\
**Category:** Mental Health Act\
**Created:** [14 November 2023 14:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/emergency-section-17-leave-on-section-5-4-5-2-holding-powers/2008 "2023-11-14T14:25:27Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Taylor](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/c2a13f/32.png) [@Taylor](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Taylor)\
**Post date:** [14 November 2023 14:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/emergency-section-17-leave-on-section-5-4-5-2-holding-powers/2008/1 "2023-11-14T14:25:27Z")

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Hello,

I have come across a case were a patient requested to leave a mental health hospital as a informal patient and was placed on a section 5, 4. He then self harmed to an extent that he need medical reviwe in the local a and e.

An on call consultant wrote up ermgency section 17 leave to the local general hospital under section 5,4. Patient was then restrained and taken by ambulance to a and e and treated with staff stating restraints were uesed under section 18 return to hosptial or place required to be by section 17.

In a and e the section 5,4 expiered, a consultant in a and e then placed patient on 5,2 - stating original hospital as the 5,2 hospital. The on call consultant phscycitrist of original hospital then re wrote a section 17 leave form with the 5,2 as the section.

Then patients section 17 was resinded to allow patient to be brought back to original hospital under section 18 .

-is this right / legal ?  
-dose section 17 apply to holding powers?  
-can someone be 5,2 to a hosptial they are not physically in  
-is 5,2 vaild as it was done in a and e?  
-can an absconder from a 5,2/4 be brought back under section 18?  
-is any subsequent section under 2 or 3 vaild ?  
-what can a professional presented with this sanorio do ?  
-can patient take retrospective legal action?  
-any thoughts?

Thanks for any help,

Taylor

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![JuliaM](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@JuliaM](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JuliaM)\
**Post date:** [14 November 2023 15:04 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/emergency-section-17-leave-on-section-5-4-5-2-holding-powers/2008/2 "2023-11-14T15:04:05Z")

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Jones manual (25th edition p149) states that s17 leave does not apply to s5(2) [and therefore s5(4)] because there is no RC (see section 34(1) definition of RC where it states RC is for sections 2,3, 7, 17A for Part II)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Siven](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@Siven](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Siven)\
**Post date:** [14 November 2023 16:10 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/emergency-section-17-leave-on-section-5-4-5-2-holding-powers/2008/3 "2023-11-14T16:10:53Z")

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Hi Taylor,

you might also find page 68, s1-092 of Jones (25th Edition) useful: it covers section 5 and transfers to other hospitals. In summary, if P consents to the transfer, P can be moved to hospital B, and hospital B may need to do a new 5(2) or 5(4) if required; or if it is an emergency and P does not consent/lacks capacity, then s4 might be used and P transferred under section 19.