# Mental Health Act **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/mental-health-act/13.md?page=16 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 17 --- ## [Eligible for aftercare services & who is responsible?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/eligible-for-aftercare-services-who-is-responsible/1334)
**Author:** [@Ngema](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Ngema)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [9 November 2022 21:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/eligible-for-aftercare-services-who-is-responsible/1334 "2022-11-09T21:34:00Z")
P lives in borough B in a residential care home & responsibility for his care arrangements & funding is with borough A. He gets admitted initially unders s2 and during the admission its converted to a s3. Within a month… --- ## [Proposed change to MHA section 2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/proposed-change-to-mha-section-2/1337)
**Author:** [@Andrew](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Andrew)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [4 November 2022 18:52 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/proposed-change-to-mha-section-2/1337 "2022-11-04T18:52:23Z")
Currently section 2 a requires the presence of a mental disorder AND 2 b requires the presence of risk of harm. The proposed change deletes AND, this seems to me to open the possibility of interpreting the criteria for d… --- ## [Transfer from Scotland to England](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/transfer-from-scotland-to-england/1335)
**Author:** [@Shalinie](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Shalinie)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [4 November 2022 03:33 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/transfer-from-scotland-to-england/1335 "2022-11-04T03:33:33Z")
What paperwork is required? Don’t seem to have been sent the original equivalents of Section 2 or 3 but have the TX1 transfer form and 6 pages of the CTO 1 v6 but no DET1 --- ## [Conditional discharge preventing Parole Board from considering parole?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/conditional-discharge-preventing-parole-board-from-considering-parole/1291)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [3 November 2022 13:41 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/conditional-discharge-preventing-parole-board-from-considering-parole/1291 "2022-11-03T13:41:13Z")
DD v Sussex Partnership NHS Foundation Trust \[2022\] UKUT 166 (AAC) was about a change in status after a tribunal application, but in passing UTJ Edward Jacobs mentions that the prisoner’s conditional discharge “effective… --- ## [Section 3 expiry date](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-3-expiry-date/1329)
**Author:** [@Bianca](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Bianca)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [2 November 2022 22:14 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-3-expiry-date/1329 "2022-11-02T22:14:20Z")
Hi, so section 3 started on 31st October and expiry date calculated as 30/04 as this six months back one day. Query over expiry date being 29/04 instead as this is one day back from end of the month ? What is the consens… --- ## [Certificate in Mental Health Law](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/certificate-in-mental-health-law/1299)
**Author:** [@AS1975](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AS1975)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [1 November 2022 11:14 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/certificate-in-mental-health-law/1299 "2022-11-01T11:14:36Z")
Hello all, I know that Northumbria University offers this. A colleague is keen to do it but it is oversubscribed and she cannot get a place until 2024. Is anyone aware of any other places that offer it? bw Adnan --- ## [S117 aftercare - person moving back to home country permanently](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare-person-moving-back-to-home-country-permanently/1305)
**Author:** [@Jacqueline](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jacqueline)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [27 October 2022 17:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare-person-moving-back-to-home-country-permanently/1305 "2022-10-27T17:03:46Z")
Hi, a colleague has raised the following query and I would be interested in people’s views. “ A person detained on S37 will be moving back to their home country on discharge, does S117 end automatically or should there… --- ## [CTO informal patient -- transfer of care](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-informal-patient-transfer-of-care/1300)
**Author:** [@Josiec2022](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Josiec2022)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [22 October 2022 07:46 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-informal-patient-transfer-of-care/1300 "2022-10-22T07:46:46Z")
A cto patient is recalled and admitted to hospital. The patient decides to stay in hospital informal. The community rc transfer the rc status and responsibilities to inpatient consultant. If the patient is still an inpat… --- ## [S136 and prior use of pepper (PAVA) spray](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s136-and-prior-use-of-pepper-pava-spray/1287)
**Author:** [@Cayman](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Cayman)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [18 October 2022 16:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s136-and-prior-use-of-pepper-pava-spray/1287 "2022-10-18T16:03:27Z")
I’m formally someone that spent a lot of time under s.136 and just trying to get some changes made (I know I’m aiming high). Anyway I wonder if any of you are anywhere near a s.136 suite/place of safety if you can inves… --- ## [When 3 panel members (Hospital Managers) cannot agree on discharge](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-3-panel-members-hospital-managers-cannot-agree-on-discharge/1282)
**Author:** [@Beatrice](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Beatrice)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [14 October 2022 11:36 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-3-panel-members-hospital-managers-cannot-agree-on-discharge/1282 "2022-10-14T11:36:19Z")
I have been looking for information on what happens when the three panel members (Hospital managers) can not agree to a discharge. Do you get a fourth member and hold the hearing again or do you get a completely new pan… --- ## [Acting for prisoners seeking transfer to hospital](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/acting-for-prisoners-seeking-transfer-to-hospital/1259)
**Author:** [@anonymous13](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous13)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [13 October 2022 14:21 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/acting-for-prisoners-seeking-transfer-to-hospital/1259 "2022-10-13T14:21:55Z")
Has anybody got experience of this? Am I right in thinking that we can now do this under a MH contract? --- ## [S3 start date and time](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s3-start-date-and-time/1274)
**Author:** [@AbbeyWeston](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AbbeyWeston)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [13 October 2022 12:47 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s3-start-date-and-time/1274 "2022-10-13T12:47:49Z")
I hope this is the right place to post. Pt on s2 which was ending 12th. Pt was assessed on 10th and assured papers would be sent through. These were not received until 13th which was after the s2 end date. I have always… --- ## [Section 117 - Can the duty be ended before discharge based on an assessment that there are no aftercare needs?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-can-the-duty-be-ended-before-discharge-based-on-an-assessment-that-there-are-no-aftercare-needs/1093)
**Author:** [@mick99](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/mick99)\ **Replies:** 13\ **Last updated:** [11 October 2022 16:19 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-can-the-duty-be-ended-before-discharge-based-on-an-assessment-that-there-are-no-aftercare-needs/1093 "2022-10-11T16:19:19Z")
Detention under a s.117 qualifying section imposes a duty on the relevant statutory bodies to provide aftercare to meet assessed needs. What are the duties and responsibilities of the statutory health and social care bo… --- ## [Status of MHA patient information leaflets](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/status-of-mha-patient-information-leaflets/1245)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [5 October 2022 09:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/status-of-mha-patient-information-leaflets/1245 "2022-10-05T09:34:40Z")
Does anybody know the current situation with the MHA patient information leaflets? The only two I can find now on Gov.uk are the s135 and s136 leaflets from 2018. The others have been archived for ages – but someone poi… --- ## [Section 37/41 after a 47/49?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-37-41-after-a-47-49/1238)
**Author:** [@anonymous14](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous14)\ **Replies:** 10\ **Last updated:** [4 October 2022 14:13 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-37-41-after-a-47-49/1238 "2022-10-04T14:13:12Z")
Hi, what happens if a patient who is already detained under a s47/49 then receives a s37/41 Hospital Order? Does the 37/41 start and the s47/49 end? --- ## [S117 Aftercare Dispute - (possible referral)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare-dispute-possible-referral/1235)
**Author:** [@Rob\_Beech](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rob_Beech)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [22 September 2022 09:08 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare-dispute-possible-referral/1235 "2022-09-22T09:08:01Z")
I have a client in a private ABI placement in the North West who is detained under s37/41 He lacks capacity to instruct and I have represented him under 11(7)(B) on occasions. During the course of the last Tribunal a l… --- ## [Section 4 of MHA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-4-of-mha/1217)
**Author:** [@AS1975](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AS1975)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [16 September 2022 08:44 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-4-of-mha/1217 "2022-09-16T08:44:12Z")
Dear All, I would be interested in people’s views and experiences of using s4 of the MHA. To put the question into context I am a consultant psychiatrist in a large rural area, with a small number of s12 approved Drs. … --- ## [Restricted Patient recalled & new Hospital do not have Hospital Order](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/restricted-patient-recalled-new-hospital-do-not-have-hospital-order/1227)
**Author:** [@RKM](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/RKM)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [15 September 2022 20:16 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/restricted-patient-recalled-new-hospital-do-not-have-hospital-order/1227 "2022-09-15T20:16:02Z")
I would welcome thoughts on this issue. A restricted patient has been recalled on a s37/41. We have the recall warrant but the hospital appear not have the original Hospital Order. We are instructed to represent at the… --- ## [Discharging s117 for patient who disappeared overseas](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/discharging-s117-for-patient-who-disappeared-overseas/1200)
**Author:** [@Ngema](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Ngema)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [12 September 2022 17:23 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/discharging-s117-for-patient-who-disappeared-overseas/1200 "2022-09-12T17:23:53Z")
Dear Colleagues, “Peter” lives in a supported care provision and is receiving aftercare services under s117. He decides to go and visit his relatives abroad now getting to 4 months: in the past he has gone for about a m… --- ## [Can Guardianship and CTO run at the same time?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-guardianship-and-cto-run-at-the-same-time/1208)
**Author:** [@Beatrice](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Beatrice)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [9 September 2022 09:32 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-guardianship-and-cto-run-at-the-same-time/1208 "2022-09-09T09:32:51Z")
If a patient is on CTO can they be put on guardianship at the same time? I have been asked this question but not even sure where to find the answer in Jones. --- ## [Dissatisfaction with Independent Advocate](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dissatisfaction-with-independent-advocate/1201)
**Author:** [@Barry](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Barry)\ **Replies:** 20\ **Last updated:** [7 September 2022 18:39 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dissatisfaction-with-independent-advocate/1201 "2022-09-07T18:39:09Z")
A Nearest Relative is concerned that the Independent Advocate appointed by the Local Authority is not representing the Patient’s wishes, as known by the NR. The NR has challenged the Advocate on the issue, but the Advoca… --- ## [S47/49 Determinate sentences and parole](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s47-49-determinate-sentences-and-parole/1188)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [27 August 2022 21:07 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s47-49-determinate-sentences-and-parole/1188 "2022-08-27T21:07:17Z")
Although I have dealt with a number of life sentenced prisoners and obtained parole hearings via s74 I find that I am unsure whether a transferred prisoner with a determinate sentence could also apply for parole via s74.… --- ## [“Voluntary” in terms of Ordinary Residence?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/voluntary-in-terms-of-ordinary-residence/1184)
**Author:** [@ZacSussex](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ZacSussex)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [22 August 2022 12:20 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/voluntary-in-terms-of-ordinary-residence/1184 "2022-08-22T12:20:18Z")
Hi All. Currently working on a s.117 dispute between LAs for a client. The issue has been boiled down to the meaning of “voluntary” within the Shah test for OR. If one were to be homeless and placed in a hostel in anoth… --- ## [CTO Patients in Prison](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-patients-in-prison/1181)
**Author:** [@MHAA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MHAA)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [21 August 2022 21:12 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-patients-in-prison/1181 "2022-08-21T21:12:32Z")
When a patient is subject to a CTO but then they are placed in prison are they still subject to the CTO? If so, who is responsible for their care such as consent to treatment and renewals? --- ## [Does anyone know what happened to the mental health legislation timeline website?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-anyone-know-what-happened-to-the-mental-health-legislation-timeline-website/1182)
**Author:** [@RogerP](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/RogerP)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [19 August 2022 09:10 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-anyone-know-what-happened-to-the-mental-health-legislation-timeline-website/1182 "2022-08-19T09:10:52Z")
There used to be a little website which traced a timeline of UK (or possibly just English and Welsh) mental health legislation through the centuries. As I recall it went way back, covering all the old Vagrancy Acts, the … --- ## [Form H5 unsigned by RC where Nearest Relative has been displaced](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/form-h5-unsigned-by-rc-where-nearest-relative-has-been-displaced/1180)
**Author:** [@sm52](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/sm52)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [18 August 2022 09:16 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/form-h5-unsigned-by-rc-where-nearest-relative-has-been-displaced/1180 "2022-08-18T09:16:29Z")
Hi, We have a situation whereby a patient who has been detained under Section 3 for many years has been transferred to a different facility. The new facility would not accept the transfer as the H5 form was not signed b… --- ## [Identification of Nearest Relative - living with foster parent for 10 years](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/identification-of-nearest-relative-living-with-foster-parent-for-10-years/1176)
**Author:** [@anonymous12](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous12)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [17 August 2022 15:58 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/identification-of-nearest-relative-living-with-foster-parent-for-10-years/1176 "2022-08-17T15:58:55Z")
Hi, if a patient has been living with a foster parent for 10 years and the patient is now an adult, would the foster parent be identified as the correct Nearest Relative over any biological parent who the patient still h… --- ## [Use of Section 136, post MHAA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/use-of-section-136-post-mhaa/1165)
**Author:** [@MentalHealthCop](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MentalHealthCop)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [12 August 2022 16:20 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/use-of-section-136-post-mhaa/1165 "2022-08-12T16:20:04Z")
There are various situations in which the police are either asked to consider use of s136 after the person concerned has already been assessed under the MHA or where the police themselves decide to do so. Just two examp… --- ## [S117 aftercare](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare/1157)
**Author:** [@JadieH](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JadieH)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [12 August 2022 16:09 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare/1157 "2022-08-12T16:09:03Z")
Is anyone aware of any judgements or rulings made relating to cases where S117 aftercare support has not been recorded as such? I vaguely remember one ombudsman case in which the LA was fined for not having recorded a S… --- ## [Admission to hospital 5 days after s2 completed](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/admission-to-hospital-5-days-after-s2-completed/1161)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [10 August 2022 08:01 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/admission-to-hospital-5-days-after-s2-completed/1161 "2022-08-10T08:01:19Z")
A patient is detained under s136 in POS and s2 completed but a bed cannot be found for 4 days so the patient remains detained in POS. s2 starts from date of hospital admission so what is her status for those 4 days betw… [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/mental-health-act/13.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/mental-health-act/13.md?page=17)