# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=6 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 7 --- ## [Why did ambulance and police refuse to convey patient from home to hospital after s2 assessment?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/why-did-ambulance-and-police-refuse-to-convey-patient-from-home-to-hospital-after-s2-assessment/4654)
**Author:** [@Talisman](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Talisman)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [19 November 2025 20:13 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/why-did-ambulance-and-police-refuse-to-convey-patient-from-home-to-hospital-after-s2-assessment/4654 "2025-11-19T20:13:49Z")
During today’s Mental Health Act assessment at the patient’s home, family members granted full access to the property. Both doctors completed their medical recommendations, and the AMHP completed the application for dete… --- ## [Concurrent DOLS & Section 2 MHA recommendations](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/concurrent-dols-section-2-mha-recommendations/4672)
**Author:** [@Lavinia](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Lavinia)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [19 November 2025 16:51 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/concurrent-dols-section-2-mha-recommendations/4672 "2025-11-19T16:51:26Z")
Patient admitted for General nursing hospital with little insight or capacity for treatment DOLS issued Patient when MOFD was referred through for MH assessment Section 2 recommdations issued Hospital licence does not… --- ## [S117 being ignored](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-being-ignored/4675)
**Author:** [@Dax](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Dax)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [19 November 2025 13:30 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-being-ignored/4675 "2025-11-19T13:30:25Z")
The person concerned was discharged from a S3 in July without any aftercare. Despite my complaint it has not been resolved in any way. I was told the complaint would be answered after 60 days. It hasn’t been. The LA say … --- ## [Section 5(2) - H1 part 2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-5-2-h1-part-2/4643)
**Author:** [@JPB](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JPB)\ **Replies:** 10\ **Last updated:** [19 November 2025 10:01 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-5-2-h1-part-2/4643 "2025-11-19T10:01:29Z")
Am I right in thinking the 5(2) holding powers start the moment the doctor furnishes the form H1 to the internal mail system (assuming they’ve timed and dated it) and failure to complete part 2 does not invalidate this a… --- ## [All covertly medicated patients on dementia ward moved from DOLS to s3 -- why?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/all-covertly-medicated-patients-on-dementia-ward-moved-from-dols-to-s3-why/3524)
**Author:** [@Trees62](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Trees62)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [18 November 2025 17:20 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/all-covertly-medicated-patients-on-dementia-ward-moved-from-dols-to-s3-why/3524 "2025-11-18T17:20:32Z")
This came up in a managers hearing around less restrictive option for a client on a elderly dementia ward DoLS have just suddenly changed the way they operate on the ward and seem to be being much more harsh with the c… --- ## [Cheshire West 2 and the subjective element](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cheshire-west-2-and-the-subjective-element/4661)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [18 November 2025 15:38 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cheshire-west-2-and-the-subjective-element/4661 "2025-11-18T15:38:39Z")
Continuing the discussion from Cheshire West logic: Here’s a topic to discuss this. The AGNI’s argument was that the subjective element of deprivation of liberty – “lack of valid consent” – has an autonomous ECHR meani… --- ## [Rapid Tranq s62/T3/common law](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rapid-tranq-s62-t3-common-law/4660)
**Author:** [@anonymous34](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous34)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [18 November 2025 15:01 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rapid-tranq-s62-t3-common-law/4660 "2025-11-18T15:01:44Z")
Hello If someone needs to be chemically restrained via RT in an emergency to prevent them from seriously harming self/others whilst they are under a section of the MHA and s58 applies (i.e. 3 month point) does the RT ne… --- ## [Right Care Right Person -- Prevention of Future Deaths reports](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/right-care-right-person-prevention-of-future-deaths-reports/4655)
**Author:** [@anonymous34](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous34)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [18 November 2025 15:00 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/right-care-right-person-prevention-of-future-deaths-reports/4655 "2025-11-18T15:00:47Z")
Hi all Do we know how many PFDs have been issued in relation to RCRP? Where can I find and keep a track of these. Thanks in advance. --- ## [Consequence of notional conditional discharge for s.47/49 IPP patient](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/consequence-of-notional-conditional-discharge-for-s-47-49-ipp-patient/4647)
**Author:** [@fswsy](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/fswsy)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [17 November 2025 22:52 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/consequence-of-notional-conditional-discharge-for-s-47-49-ipp-patient/4647 "2025-11-17T22:52:59Z")
When a patient on a s.47/49 IPP is conditionally discharged at the mental health tribunal, do they transfer to a notional section 37 or do they remain on the same section just with a notional conditional discharge decisi… --- ## [Scrambled tribunal decision](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/scrambled-tribunal-decision/3937)
**Author:** [@anonymous70](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous70)\ **Replies:** 12\ **Last updated:** [14 November 2025 13:12 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/scrambled-tribunal-decision/3937 "2025-11-14T13:12:20Z")
I have a decision which I am going to appeal as I believe that the MHT have made an error of law. However, part of the decision appears to have been dictated by voice recognition or written by AI in that it is completely… --- ## [Can NR apply to tribunal when barred from discharging s2?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-nr-apply-to-tribunal-when-barred-from-discharging-s2/4640)
**Author:** [@Kemmasokol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kemmasokol)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [13 November 2025 16:37 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-nr-apply-to-tribunal-when-barred-from-discharging-s2/4640 "2025-11-13T16:37:27Z")
If someone is detained under Section 2 of the Mental Health Act and their nearest relative orders their discharge but it is barred, can the nearest relative appeal to the Tribunal? If not, why not? --- ## [Section 2 start date](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-2-start-date/4634)
**Author:** [@Kemmasokol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kemmasokol)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [13 November 2025 13:05 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-2-start-date/4634 "2025-11-13T13:05:29Z")
The patient for section 2 was admitted to the ward on 21/09/2025 at 20:40 hours. The AMHP signed the A2 form on 21/09/2025, but the H3 form (Part 1a) states that date of admission 21/09/2025, but it was h3 signed on 2… --- ## [Rule 11(7)(a) appointments by tribunal office](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rule-11-7-a-appointments-by-tribunal-office/4629)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [13 November 2025 12:41 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rule-11-7-a-appointments-by-tribunal-office/4629 "2025-11-13T12:41:07Z")
We have become aware that the tribunal office have started ‘appointing’ reps under R 11(7) a without obtaining a capacity assessment . This is not within the rules as they do not have evidence on capacity or that the pat… --- ## [Independent doctor for MHT reports](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/independent-doctor-for-mht-reports/4633)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [13 November 2025 11:31 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/independent-doctor-for-mht-reports/4633 "2025-11-13T11:31:10Z")
My usual independent doctor has retired. Can anyone suggest someone good in the London area? --- ## [Legal representation for nearest relative and patient at tribunal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/legal-representation-for-nearest-relative-and-patient-at-tribunal/3504)
**Author:** [@anonymous59](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous59)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [9 November 2025 09:58 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/legal-representation-for-nearest-relative-and-patient-at-tribunal/3504 "2025-11-09T09:58:15Z")
Thanks. If my NR applies to the tribunal, can they get representation? They have the same right to appoint someone to represent them at their tribunal. This can be a legal representative or a non-legal representative. … --- ## [Justification for move from s2 to s3](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/justification-for-move-from-s2-to-s3/4585)
**Author:** [@micka](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/micka)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [8 November 2025 14:42 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/justification-for-move-from-s2-to-s3/4585 "2025-11-08T14:42:29Z")
when section 2 ends do the hospital have to show a treatment plan to get section 3? --- ## [Automatically ending s117 duty when patient is re-detained in another borough](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/automatically-ending-s117-duty-when-patient-is-re-detained-in-another-borough/4581)
**Author:** [@anonymous34](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous34)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [6 November 2025 16:50 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/automatically-ending-s117-duty-when-patient-is-re-detained-in-another-borough/4581 "2025-11-06T16:50:21Z")
Hi Can LAs and NHS bodies automatically end s117, without reviewing/involving the patient who continues to have s117 needs because they became aware that the patient moved to another borough and was re-detained in that … --- ## [Challenged in tribunal about why incapacitated compliant patient could not be on DOLS in hospital](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/challenged-in-tribunal-about-why-incapacitated-compliant-patient-could-not-be-on-dols-in-hospital/3093)
**Author:** [@lizzyW](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/lizzyW)\ **Replies:** 11\ **Last updated:** [5 November 2025 11:19 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/challenged-in-tribunal-about-why-incapacitated-compliant-patient-could-not-be-on-dols-in-hospital/3093 "2025-11-05T11:19:58Z")
Hi all , i am a forensic social worker , working with a person detained under section 37, we are in a position where we can be looking at this persons discharge to a 24 hour care setting on a 1:1 . A standard Authori… --- ## [Refusals to act on clear needs](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/refusals-to-act-on-clear-needs/4577)
**Author:** [@anonymous80](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous80)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [5 November 2025 09:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/refusals-to-act-on-clear-needs/4577 "2025-11-05T09:34:03Z")
What steps can you take if both the care provider and social worker repeatedly promise a referral for psychiatric help for someone with obvious needs, but nothing happens, and the GP cannot proceed without them? It’s bee… --- ## [S117a and Care Act Assessment Eligibility](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117a-and-care-act-assessment-eligibility/4556)
**Author:** [@Kinloss](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kinloss)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [4 November 2025 01:53 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117a-and-care-act-assessment-eligibility/4556 "2025-11-04T01:53:41Z")
In the case of a child (17yo) who was detained under a S117a qualifying section where there is a duty on the relevant statutory bodies to provide aftercare to meet assessed needs relating to original MHA detention for tr… --- ## [Section 117 aftercare responsibility for an 18 year old (previously a looked after child ) who has been sectioned in two different boroughs](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-aftercare-responsibility-for-an-18-year-old-previously-a-looked-after-child-who-has-been-sectioned-in-two-different-boroughs/4568)
**Author:** [@Mary19](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Mary19)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [3 November 2025 10:00 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-aftercare-responsibility-for-an-18-year-old-previously-a-looked-after-child-who-has-been-sectioned-in-two-different-boroughs/4568 "2025-11-03T10:00:03Z")
Dear AMHPs and Social Workers, I am handling a case where D a 18 year old who has been on section 3 four times in 2 different boroughs. They were a looked after child in borough X at the time of all the sectioning’s . T… --- ## [Mental Health Act assessment request not taken to appropriate interview after triage](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mental-health-act-assessment-request-not-taken-to-appropriate-interview-after-triage/3687)
**Author:** [@Tony2457](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Tony2457)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [31 October 2025 18:02 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mental-health-act-assessment-request-not-taken-to-appropriate-interview-after-triage/3687 "2025-10-31T18:02:27Z")
Dear all AMHP’s Has anyone Triaged a MHA assessment request and put it on hold as the Nearest Relative has said they are going to see the Patient, “Their Wife” and wanted to use the least restrictive option first. Secon… --- ## [When does delegation of Nearest Relative powers under Reg 24 end?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-does-delegation-of-nearest-relative-powers-under-reg-24-end/4557)
**Author:** [@larapatrick](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/larapatrick)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [31 October 2025 16:01 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-does-delegation-of-nearest-relative-powers-under-reg-24-end/4557 "2025-10-31T16:01:13Z")
Where the NR role has been delegated under Reg 24, does this only last for the detention period in which the delegation was made? The Regs refer to the delegation ending on withdrawal of delegation / death of NR or NR c… --- ## [Rule 11(7)(a) and lack of express instructions](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rule-11-7-a-and-lack-of-express-instructions/3222)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 12\ **Last updated:** [29 October 2025 11:47 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rule-11-7-a-and-lack-of-express-instructions/3222 "2025-10-29T11:47:46Z")
Have you seen the recent case about this? IN v St Andrew’s Healthcare \[2024\] UKUT 411 (AAC). After years of persuasion, the Legal Aid Agency eventually allowed representatives to claim Level 1 fee in limited circumstanc… --- ## [How soon do s2 hearings have to be listed?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/how-soon-do-s2-hearings-have-to-be-listed/4503)
**Author:** [@Kemmasokol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kemmasokol)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [25 October 2025 20:06 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/how-soon-do-s2-hearings-have-to-be-listed/4503 "2025-10-25T20:06:59Z")
Is the Section 2 hearing listed within 7 days or 10 days after Covid? I am slightly confused about which rule currently applies. --- ## [Withdrawing application after it has been consolidated with reference](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/withdrawing-application-after-it-has-been-consolidated-with-reference/4523)
**Author:** [@Kemmasokol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kemmasokol)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [25 October 2025 19:53 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/withdrawing-application-after-it-has-been-consolidated-with-reference/4523 "2025-10-25T19:53:50Z")
My client’s initial Section 3 started on 24/06/2024. It was renewed on 23/12/2024 and again on 22/06/2025. He applied to the Tribunal on 23/09/2025, but his case was referred by the MHA, and the hearings have been consol… --- ## [Applying the Mental Capacity Act in daily care practice: when is a best interests decision really needed?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/applying-the-mental-capacity-act-in-daily-care-practice-when-is-a-best-interests-decision-really-needed/4467)
**Author:** [@gopinaveenmail](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/gopinaveenmail)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [22 October 2025 17:58 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/applying-the-mental-capacity-act-in-daily-care-practice-when-is-a-best-interests-decision-really-needed/4467 "2025-10-22T17:58:45Z")
I work in a care home and have a question about how the Mental Capacity Act (MCA) 2005 applies in daily practice. The Act says we must assume a person has capacity unless it is proven they lack it (Section 1(2)) and tha… --- ## [RC arrangements for long-term S17](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rc-arrangements-for-long-term-s17/4515)
**Author:** [@charlottemapp](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/charlottemapp)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [21 October 2025 12:09 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rc-arrangements-for-long-term-s17/4515 "2025-10-21T12:09:50Z")
We have a patient that is likely to be discharged into the community under long-term S17 as he is unlikely to be able to be conditionally discharged from his S37/41 but not longer requires hospital treatment. The plan wa… --- ## [Section 135(2) warrants and evidence from nurse who hadn't applied for warrant](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-135-2-warrants-and-evidence-from-nurse-who-hadnt-applied-for-warrant/4509)
**Author:** [@anonymous34](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous34)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [21 October 2025 09:43 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-135-2-warrants-and-evidence-from-nurse-who-hadnt-applied-for-warrant/4509 "2025-10-21T09:43:25Z")
Hi Nursing staff have raised concerns where they are applying for the above, are no longer on shift or are on annual leave for when the hearing does eventually takes place, but a different nurse is willing to attend the… --- ## [Legal duty after AMHP decides to make application](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/legal-duty-after-amhp-decides-to-make-application/4491)
**Author:** [@Walaro1](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Walaro1)\ **Replies:** 11\ **Last updated:** [20 October 2025 17:30 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/legal-duty-after-amhp-decides-to-make-application/4491 "2025-10-20T17:30:52Z")
What is the legal duty of a Trust to provide a bed once an AMHP has decided that they will make an application for admission under section? What if the patient agrees to be admitted informally while waiting for the bed? … [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=7)