# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=5 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 6 --- ## [Impact of Mazur on Mental Health Law?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/impact-of-mazur-on-mental-health-law/4351)
**Author:** [@ZacSussex](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ZacSussex)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [15 December 2025 22:35 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/impact-of-mazur-on-mental-health-law/4351 "2025-12-15T22:35:59Z")
Does anyone have any strong views about whether the Mazur ruling has any impact on casework in MH law? I’ve seen some departments that don’t have a regulated person (either ILEX or panel accreditation only) so it seems … --- ## [Vulnerable person's 2-3 day absence from placement not reported to safeguarding](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/vulnerable-persons-2-3-day-absence-from-placement-not-reported-to-safeguarding/4824)
**Author:** [@MetaphorMuse](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MetaphorMuse)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [14 December 2025 21:57 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/vulnerable-persons-2-3-day-absence-from-placement-not-reported-to-safeguarding/4824 "2025-12-14T21:57:18Z")
If a vulnerable individual leaves a placement they dislike and remains absent for two or three days, what are the consequences if this incident is not reported to safeguarding, and what actions could or should be taken? --- ## [Is there anything like Martha\`s Rule in care homes?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/is-there-anything-like-martha-s-rule-in-care-homes/4475)
**Author:** [@MetaphorMuse](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MetaphorMuse)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [19 October 2025 13:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/is-there-anything-like-martha-s-rule-in-care-homes/4475 "2025-10-19T13:03:00Z")
I understand Martha’s Rule is currently limited to NHS hospital settings, but I’m wondering whether any care providers or local authorities have adopted similar principles. In some cases, families notice subtle signs of … --- ## [Withdrawal and reinstatement](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/withdrawal-and-reinstatement/4816)
**Author:** [@Kemmasokol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kemmasokol)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [11 December 2025 09:52 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/withdrawal-and-reinstatement/4816 "2025-12-11T09:52:59Z")
If someone made an application to withdraw their application from the tribunal two weeks before the hearing, consent to the withdrawal would be in accordance with Rule 17(2). If they now want to reinstate the application… --- ## [Meaning of words in statutory criteria: appropriate, necessary etc](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/meaning-of-words-in-statutory-criteria-appropriate-necessary-etc/4768)
**Author:** [@m-ffp](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/m-ffp)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [10 December 2025 21:19 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/meaning-of-words-in-statutory-criteria-appropriate-necessary-etc/4768 "2025-12-10T21:19:47Z")
Continuing the discussion from Effect of Supreme Court decision about Northern Irish law (Re RM): What struck me was the seemingly blanket insistence that “appropriate” and “necessary” mean the same thing, does that mea… --- ## [Effect of Supreme Court decision about Northern Irish law (Re RM)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/effect-of-supreme-court-decision-about-northern-irish-law-re-rm/4742)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [10 December 2025 10:11 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/effect-of-supreme-court-decision-about-northern-irish-law-re-rm/4742 "2025-12-10T10:11:57Z")
Re RM Application for Judicial Review Northern Ireland \[2024\] UKSC 7 was about article 15 of the Mental Health (Northern Ireland) Order 1986, the equivalent to s17 Mental Health Act 1983 in England & Wales. It directly c… --- ## [Lawfulness of earlier first statutory referrals by the MOJ (and the relevance of the change in status cases)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-earlier-first-statutory-referrals-by-the-moj-and-the-relevance-of-the-change-in-status-cases/4181)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [6 December 2025 09:19 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-earlier-first-statutory-referrals-by-the-moj-and-the-relevance-of-the-change-in-status-cases/4181 "2025-12-06T09:19:45Z")
In Ministry of Justice, ‘Mental Health Casework Section stakeholder update’ (July 2025) it is explained that s37/41 restricted hospital order patients (or s45A hybrid order patients) who had previously been transferred u… --- ## [Challenging perceived risk (no longer allowed to self-medicate)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/challenging-perceived-risk-no-longer-allowed-to-self-medicate/4694)
**Author:** [@anonymous60](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous60)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [6 December 2025 07:42 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/challenging-perceived-risk-no-longer-allowed-to-self-medicate/4694 "2025-12-06T07:42:05Z")
Hello. Please can somebody advise on how to challenge an RC’s perceived risk and subsequent management of a S47/49 patient who has successfully won a tribunal and does not need hospital treatment. Despite patient denyin… --- ## [Anonymity of patients in court judgments](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/anonymity-of-patients-in-court-judgments/4761)
**Author:** [@ZacSussex](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ZacSussex)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [6 December 2025 00:19 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/anonymity-of-patients-in-court-judgments/4761 "2025-12-06T00:19:16Z")
Continuing the discussion from Lawfulness of earlier first statutory referrals by the MOJ (and the relevance of the change in status cases): Off topic a little but I wish they spent more time on the anonymity matter. Th… --- ## [Start date of CTO after renewal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/start-date-of-cto-after-renewal/4759)
**Author:** [@Kemmasokol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kemmasokol)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [5 December 2025 19:57 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/start-date-of-cto-after-renewal/4759 "2025-12-05T19:57:01Z")
My client was placed on a Community Treatment Order (Section 17A) on 10 December 2024. The CTO was due to expire at midnight on 9 June 2025 (six months), but it was renewed on 3 June 2025. Does the original start date(10… --- ## [What to do with incomplete social circumstances report](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/what-to-do-with-incomplete-social-circumstances-report/4546)
**Author:** [@Kemmasokol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kemmasokol)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [5 December 2025 10:32 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/what-to-do-with-incomplete-social-circumstances-report/4546 "2025-12-05T10:32:58Z")
My client does not have capacity under Section 2 (first admission). However, in the Social Circumstances Report, Question 2 (“Factors affecting the client’s hearing”) is answered “No.” Question 4 provides some details o… --- ## [Consequences of leaving the UK until expiry of CTO](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/consequences-of-leaving-the-uk-until-expiry-of-cto/4739)
**Author:** [@survivor2025](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/survivor2025)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [4 December 2025 16:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/consequences-of-leaving-the-uk-until-expiry-of-cto/4739 "2025-12-04T16:26:23Z")
Hi, I was accused of an offence, sent to prison for 3 Months, Then Mental Hospital. I was detained in Mental hospital based on my offence until my court hearing. I was found not guilty for my offence and further released… --- ## [Remand prisoners on s48/49 for lengthy periods because of court delays](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/remand-prisoners-on-s48-49-for-lengthy-periods-because-of-court-delays/4746)
**Author:** [@JoDee](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JoDee)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [4 December 2025 15:56 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/remand-prisoners-on-s48-49-for-lengthy-periods-because-of-court-delays/4746 "2025-12-04T15:56:14Z")
On this topic, a patient in medium secure on s.48/49 has had his case management review delayed 10 times over the past 2 years. I have asked the MoJ how this patient can be held restricted on remand for more than 6 mont… --- ## [Compensation for tribunal delays](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/compensation-for-tribunal-delays/4744)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [4 December 2025 15:08 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/compensation-for-tribunal-delays/4744 "2025-12-04T15:08:20Z")
People talk about “the Fall of Leicester” as if we are entering the Dark Ages, but are the delays caused by cancellations and inability to find panels causing problems like in the old delay cases (R (KB) v MHRT \[2003\] EW… --- ## [Conditional discharge exclusion zone out of the jurisdiction](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/conditional-discharge-exclusion-zone-out-of-the-jurisdiction/4743)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [4 December 2025 14:45 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/conditional-discharge-exclusion-zone-out-of-the-jurisdiction/4743 "2025-12-04T14:45:47Z")
Continuing the discussion from Consequences of leaving the UK until expiry of CTO: The question in the topic above reminded me about something that cropped up in conversation a few weeks ago. Can a condition not to go e… --- ## [Scottish Compulsory Treatment Order cross-border transfer](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/scottish-compulsory-treatment-order-cross-border-transfer/4733)
**Author:** [@Maria](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Maria)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [4 December 2025 01:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/scottish-compulsory-treatment-order-cross-border-transfer/4733 "2025-12-04T01:25:22Z")
My brother is on a community based CTO in Scotland. Im his named person. I’ve initiated a request for transfer to England and the MHO and RMO response was hes now been classed as having no capacity all of a sudden and we… --- ## [Local Authorities citing recall as an end to aftercare and a 'new' detention beginning meaning a change in RLA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/local-authorities-citing-recall-as-an-end-to-aftercare-and-a-new-detention-beginning-meaning-a-change-in-rla/4725)
**Author:** [@ClarkeMar](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ClarkeMar)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [3 December 2025 19:04 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/local-authorities-citing-recall-as-an-end-to-aftercare-and-a-new-detention-beginning-meaning-a-change-in-rla/4725 "2025-12-03T19:04:24Z")
Hello All Does anyone have any particular experience with Responsible Local Authorities ending 117 entitlements for a patient who’s qualifying section was s.37/41 and is later recalled to hospital. The RLA now holding t… --- ## [What if AMHP does not explain why neither doctor has previous acquaintance?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/what-if-amhp-does-not-explain-why-neither-doctor-has-previous-acquaintance/4728)
**Author:** [@Kemmasokol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kemmasokol)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [2 December 2025 17:05 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/what-if-amhp-does-not-explain-why-neither-doctor-has-previous-acquaintance/4728 "2025-12-02T17:05:22Z")
If the two doctors do not have previous acquaintance with the patient, and the AMHP does not provide an explanation for why a doctor who knew the patient could not be found, does that make the section invalid? --- ## [Two hospital orders dated the same day](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/two-hospital-orders-dated-the-same-day/4251)
**Author:** [@Rona](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rona)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [28 November 2025 16:43 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/two-hospital-orders-dated-the-same-day/4251 "2025-11-28T16:43:08Z")
Continuing the discussion from Queries about second unrestricted hospital order: Hi Guy, So I have put a separate post up about the common platform that Courts use regarding my situation. So if I have two hospital order… --- ## [S117 and quashed sentence](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-and-quashed-sentence/4712)
**Author:** [@ClarkeMar](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ClarkeMar)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [26 November 2025 15:08 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-and-quashed-sentence/4712 "2025-11-26T15:08:29Z")
Does anyone have any experience of a person’s entitlement to s.117 aftercare being denied following the conviction and subsequent hospital order with restrictions being quashed at court? Many thanks --- ## [Cheshire West 2 and the objective element](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cheshire-west-2-and-the-objective-element/4662)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [26 November 2025 08:05 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cheshire-west-2-and-the-objective-element/4662 "2025-11-26T08:05:50Z")
Continuing the discussion from Cheshire West logic: Here’s another topic, to discuss this aspect. The AGNI’s reference wasn’t about the objective element – “confinement to a certain limited place for a not negligible l… --- ## [Cheshire West logic](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cheshire-west-logic/4651)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 10\ **Last updated:** [25 November 2025 14:56 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cheshire-west-logic/4651 "2025-11-25T14:56:15Z")
Here is something that I wondered about when first reading Lady Hale’s judgment in Cheshire West. I haven’t asked it on here before because it’s hard to express (which usually means I’m barking up the wrong tree) but now… --- ## [Clinical scrutiny of Scottish Detention Paperwork](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/clinical-scrutiny-of-scottish-detention-paperwork/4702)
**Author:** [@Sejal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Sejal)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [25 November 2025 18:17 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/clinical-scrutiny-of-scottish-detention-paperwork/4702 "2025-11-25T18:17:16Z")
Hello, I was just wondering, if a patient is transferred to England with Scottish paperwork (CTO) do we need clinical scrutiny to be done on these papers, or does this not apply? --- ## [Advice needed on how best to read medical records](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/advice-needed-on-how-best-to-read-medical-records/4686)
**Author:** [@Kemmasokol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kemmasokol)\ **Replies:** 10\ **Last updated:** [25 November 2025 14:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/advice-needed-on-how-best-to-read-medical-records/4686 "2025-11-25T14:34:51Z")
For a Section 3 case, I have three months of progress notes totaling about 500 pages. Do I need to consider all of them, or just some? Is there any way to approach this more efficientlyfor example, by reviewing the initi… --- ## [Nearest relative identification -- adoptive and biological parents](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-identification-adoptive-and-biological-parents/4703)
**Author:** [@Strigan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Strigan)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [24 November 2025 21:33 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-identification-adoptive-and-biological-parents/4703 "2025-11-24T21:33:50Z")
A patient is put up for adoption as a child and is adopted and raised by the adopter. As an adult their adopting parent dies. They find out who their biological parent is and they meet. They decide to informally resume t… --- ## [Absence of proof of medical scrutiny invalidates detention?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/absence-of-proof-of-medical-scrutiny-invalidates-detention/4687)
**Author:** [@AmyBooth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AmyBooth)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [24 November 2025 09:27 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/absence-of-proof-of-medical-scrutiny-invalidates-detention/4687 "2025-11-24T09:27:22Z")
Hi, Can I please have views on whether or not failure to be able to provide proof of medical scrutiny should invalidate a detention considering that the Code of Practice states that it SHOULD take place rather than MUST… --- ## [Whether Modaresi principle applies generally](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/whether-modaresi-principle-applies-generally/4695)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [23 November 2025 13:00 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/whether-modaresi-principle-applies-generally/4695 "2025-11-23T13:00:59Z")
In R (Modaresi) v SSH \[2011\] EWCA Civ 1359 it was decided that the where the tribunal office is closed on the 14th day of the s2 eligibility period, the period is extended to include the next day that it is open. I hear… --- ## [Tribunal application rights of NR and patient on s37](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-application-rights-of-nr-and-patient-on-s37/4682)
**Author:** [@Kemmasokol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kemmasokol)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [22 November 2025 11:09 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-application-rights-of-nr-and-patient-on-s37/4682 "2025-11-22T11:09:52Z")
The patient is on a notional Section 37. Their Nearest Relative applied to the Tribunal and the application has already been heard, but the patient was not discharged. Can the patient now make their own application now? --- ## [Effect of release on CTO revocation tribunal referral](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/effect-of-release-on-cto-revocation-tribunal-referral/4681)
**Author:** [@Kemmasokol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kemmasokol)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [20 November 2025 10:46 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/effect-of-release-on-cto-revocation-tribunal-referral/4681 "2025-11-20T10:46:16Z")
When a patient’s CTO is revoked, a referral under section 68(7) is made. But if the patient goes back onto a CTO, does the case close or does the referral still stand? --- ## [MHA contravening ECHR?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-contravening-echr/4674)
**Author:** [@JAL66](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JAL66)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [19 November 2025 20:14 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-contravening-echr/4674 "2025-11-19T20:14:45Z")
As a layman, I would appreciate some guidance or correction on the seeming disconnect between the MHA and ECHR:- A patient has capacity and, with a full knowledge and depth of understanding regarding the action of a dru… [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=6)