# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=31 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 32 --- ## [F2F Hearing](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/f2f-hearing/786)
**Author:** [@Rob\_Beech](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rob_Beech)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [23 February 2022 03:57 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/f2f-hearing/786 "2022-02-23T03:57:00Z")
I’ve been asked to assist with a s37/41 for a patient in an MSU who is not only deaf but also has a brain injury. He had a hearing last year with someone else and said it was a disaster and he was largely unable to foll… --- ## [What circumstances allow covering responsible clinicians to attend Mental Health Review Tribunals and Mental Health Act Manager Reviews?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/what-circumstances-allow-covering-responsible-clinicians-to-attend-mental-health-review-tribunals-and-mental-health-act-manager-reviews/782)
**Author:** [@Rosemaryherb](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rosemaryherb)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [18 February 2022 15:50 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/what-circumstances-allow-covering-responsible-clinicians-to-attend-mental-health-review-tribunals-and-mental-health-act-manager-reviews/782 "2022-02-18T15:50:09Z")
What do the Regulations say about Responsible Clinicians being covered by another doctor who has not signed the H5 or M2? Is this now an accepted practice? Rosemary Moore A Nearest Relative under the 1983 Mental Heal… --- ## [Paper reviews and uncontested renewals](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/paper-reviews-and-uncontested-renewals/787)
**Author:** [@Sellicott](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Sellicott)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [18 February 2022 15:39 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/paper-reviews-and-uncontested-renewals/787 "2022-02-18T15:39:27Z")
If there is NO legal requirement for Hospital Managers one wonders why all uncontested renewals are routinely reviewed by panels as a paper exercise? --- ## [Missing date on AMHP application](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/missing-date-on-amhp-application/779)
**Author:** [@anonymous2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous2)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [15 February 2022 22:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/missing-date-on-amhp-application/779 "2022-02-15T22:25:49Z")
Final date missing from AMHP application but obvious from the rest of the application as to when it was completed. Is this ‘De minimus?’ --- ## [MHT pre-judging the case before the Tribunal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mht-pre-judging-the-case-before-the-tribunal/762)
**Author:** [@helen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/helen)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [9 February 2022 11:53 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mht-pre-judging-the-case-before-the-tribunal/762 "2022-02-09T11:53:27Z")
Hi, does anyone remember a case where the Tribunal doctor (following a PHE) expressed a firm view of no-discharge prior to the Tribunal taking place. I recall that there was a successful challenge that confirmed that wh… --- ## [Welsh Tribunal - medical records and content of reports](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/welsh-tribunal-medical-records-and-content-of-reports/741)
**Author:** [@anonymous1](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous1)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [20 January 2022 07:56 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/welsh-tribunal-medical-records-and-content-of-reports/741 "2022-01-20T07:56:14Z")
Can anyone tell me whether there is any practice direction in the Welsh Tribunal concerning the production of medical records? If not, how can these be accessed remotely? Also, is there any rule concerning the content o… --- ## [DOLS and Misuse of money/property accusations against EPA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dols-and-misuse-of-money-property-accusations-against-epa/736)
**Author:** [@AJM](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AJM)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [8 January 2022 14:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dols-and-misuse-of-money-property-accusations-against-epa/736 "2022-01-08T14:26:24Z")
My mother is in a psychiatric hospital, under section 3, as in previous post. She is now due to be discharged in next month and community care team have been in touch to update CPA then MDT meeting and suggested Best int… --- ## [S.86 MHA - "removal of alien patients"](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s-86-mha-removal-of-alien-patients/733)
**Author:** [@Wendy1](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Wendy1)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [6 January 2022 20:24 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s-86-mha-removal-of-alien-patients/733 "2022-01-06T20:24:45Z")
I am wondering if any of you could assist me at all in relation to a s86 referral to MHRT by the Secretary of State for a client of mine. My client is a US citizen with no right to remain in the UK. He was initially d… --- ## [Change of RC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/change-of-rc/730)
**Author:** [@Jade1](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jade1)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [6 January 2022 11:48 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/change-of-rc/730 "2022-01-06T11:48:29Z")
The RC is changing at my hospital, could anyone help me in providing a list of all paper work that will need to be updated/ re done with the new RC? I am aware of some paper work that will need to be changed however I am… --- ## [S.75(2) MHA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s-75-2-mha/727)
**Author:** [@RogerP](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/RogerP)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [29 December 2021 08:37 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s-75-2-mha/727 "2021-12-29T08:37:28Z")
In early 2005, Munby J delivered his judgment in R (SC) v. The Mental Health Review Tribunal & Anor \[2005\] EWHC 17. There had until then been no clear guidance on how the s.75(2) MHA 1983 discretion should be exercised b… --- ## [Tribunal applications in first six months of hospital order](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-applications-in-first-six-months-of-hospital-order/593)
**Author:** [@MHLO](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MHLO)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [3 December 2021 22:51 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-applications-in-first-six-months-of-hospital-order/593 "2021-12-03T22:51:08Z")
\*\*Case (Change in status - s47/49 to s37/41).\*\* CS v Elysium Healthcare \[2021\] UKUT 186 (AAC) — The patient applied to the MHRT for Wales while subject to a s47/49 restricted transfer direction; then the Court of Appeal … --- ## [Re-sectioning after HMH approved discharge](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/re-sectioning-after-hmh-approved-discharge/714)
**Author:** [@H.ali](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/H.ali)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [2 December 2021 17:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/re-sectioning-after-hmh-approved-discharge/714 "2021-12-02T17:26:41Z")
Hi All, I thought I would pick everyone’s brains here for a colleagues case. In summary- HMH discharged her client as they were not satisfied detention was necessary. Client agreed to remain informal and continue medic… --- ## [Strike Out - or Reinstatement - No equivalent in Wales](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/strike-out-or-reinstatement-no-equivalent-in-wales/704)
**Author:** [@Rob\_Beech](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rob_Beech)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [2 December 2021 13:31 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/strike-out-or-reinstatement-no-equivalent-in-wales/704 "2021-12-02T13:31:44Z")
We obviously have the SM v Livewell case which deals with capacity to make an application to the Tribunal. Obviously in cases where the application is invalid the Tribunal have the option under Rule 8 to strike it out h… --- ## [Section 47/49 sentence due to end within days of tribunal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-47-49-sentence-due-to-end-within-days-of-tribunal/709)
**Author:** [@KeithJames3768](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/KeithJames3768)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [30 November 2021 21:18 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-47-49-sentence-due-to-end-within-days-of-tribunal/709 "2021-11-30T21:18:30Z")
Hello, I have a section 47/49 tribunal listed this week. Client transferred prison to hospital August. Applied to the tribunal shortly after. Tribunal not listed until this week. The end of sentence date is 10 days af… --- ## [Location of old case - Walters v Chichester Health Authority, 26 April 1999](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/location-of-old-case-walters-v-chichester-health-authority-26-april-1999/702)
**Author:** [@esme.sheridan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/esme.sheridan)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [26 November 2021 09:23 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/location-of-old-case-walters-v-chichester-health-authority-26-april-1999/702 "2021-11-26T09:23:47Z")
I have been trying to find the location of the full case of Walters–v-Chichester Health Authority 26 April 1999. I have searched various research platforms and have even spoken with the law society and still unable to lo… --- ## [Giving option of informal or 5(2)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/giving-option-of-informal-or-5-2/697)
**Author:** [@MentalHealthNurse](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MentalHealthNurse)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [25 November 2021 16:52 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/giving-option-of-informal-or-5-2/697 "2021-11-25T16:52:11Z")
If an individual has agreed to go to hospital informally - whether that is through the course of an MHA assessment, from a community team direct to the ward, or gatekept at first presentation as not being suitable for ho… --- ## [When is a person an organisation?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-is-a-person-an-organisation/700)
**Author:** [@Nickwoo](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Nickwoo)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [22 November 2021 17:44 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-is-a-person-an-organisation/700 "2021-11-22T17:44:44Z")
Hi, the Reference Guide says “2.38 The county court may make an order directing that the functions of the nearest relative are to be exercised by another person, whether or not they are related to the patient and whe… --- ## [Standards for recording MHA assessments by s12 Drs](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/standards-for-recording-mha-assessments-by-s12-drs/694)
**Author:** [@HelenR](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/HelenR)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [19 November 2021 13:18 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/standards-for-recording-mha-assessments-by-s12-drs/694 "2021-11-19T13:18:43Z")
Hi all, Does anyone know where I can lay my hands on any standards set for s12 Drs in recording their MHA assessments for the patient record? This is in addition to the expectations on content contained within the medi… --- ## [Kennel fees - Who pays whilst patient on section 3 MHA 1983](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/kennel-fees-who-pays-whilst-patient-on-section-3-mha-1983/686)
**Author:** [@BriefScrutiny](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/BriefScrutiny)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [17 November 2021 15:32 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/kennel-fees-who-pays-whilst-patient-on-section-3-mha-1983/686 "2021-11-17T15:32:39Z")
Good afternoon, Has anyone any knowledge to kindly assist please. My client is subject to section 3 of the MHA 1983 and is an inpatient in hospital, in Wales. He owns a dog which he describes as ‘his life’. Currently,… --- ## ["Completed MHT" in the last 12 months for reaccreditation](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/completed-mht-in-the-last-12-months-for-reaccreditation/685)
**Author:** [@Chelin](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Chelin)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [15 November 2021 22:56 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/completed-mht-in-the-last-12-months-for-reaccreditation/685 "2021-11-15T22:56:51Z")
Does anyone know what the definition of “completed” could be in the guidance notes or is it intended to have the dictionary meaning of " finished/done/concluded"? --- ## [Defective hospital order](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/defective-hospital-order/666)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [2 November 2021 13:49 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/defective-hospital-order/666 "2021-11-02T13:49:48Z")
I have been provided with a copy of a s37/41 which is incomplete and appears to have been amended. (It states that the offence was ‘assault on an emergency’ and the remaining words appear to have been removed. Also it ap… --- ## [RC Discharge from Section 2 if patient not detainable under Section 3](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rc-discharge-from-section-2-if-patient-not-detainable-under-section-3/404)
**Author:** [@Bhuwan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Bhuwan)\ **Replies:** 13\ **Last updated:** [28 October 2021 22:49 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rc-discharge-from-section-2-if-patient-not-detainable-under-section-3/404 "2021-10-28T22:49:32Z")
Good day to everyone., I am a long term follower of the forum, but this is my first post. I write to seek guidance/advice on the issue of the Responsible Clinician’s duties with regards to discharging a detained patien… --- ## [Minimum number of representations at Tribunal hearings for re-accreditation](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/minimum-number-of-representations-at-tribunal-hearings-for-re-accreditation/603)
**Author:** [@hayleymiller](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hayleymiller)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [28 October 2021 22:27 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/minimum-number-of-representations-at-tribunal-hearings-for-re-accreditation/603 "2021-10-28T22:27:43Z")
I was wondering if anyone was aware of the minimum number of Tribunal hearings you need to attend over the 3-year period in order to be eligible for re-accreditation? I have recently qualified as a solicitor and will be… --- ## [Section 117 MHA Care home top ups and section 117 aftercare](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-mha-care-home-top-ups-and-section-117-aftercare/633)
**Author:** [@AJM](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AJM)\ **Replies:** 26\ **Last updated:** [20 October 2021 15:58 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-mha-care-home-top-ups-and-section-117-aftercare/633 "2021-10-20T15:58:52Z")
My mother is in a psychiatric hospital under section 3 MHA. She was admitted in Jan 2021 after self neglect in Nov 2020, emergency admittance to a and e local hosp, not eating drinking, needed drip and lost half body wei… --- ## [Where to find statistics on patient admissions and outcomes?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/where-to-find-statistics-on-patient-admissions-and-outcomes/631)
**Author:** [@Barry](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Barry)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [11 October 2021 08:28 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/where-to-find-statistics-on-patient-admissions-and-outcomes/631 "2021-10-11T08:28:08Z")
Question from twitter : C Jane Haines @CJaneHaines Sep 22 Struggling to find any data on the number of people who enter inpatient mh services on a voluntary basis, no crime committed, and end up in forensic services. … --- ## [Third-party information in medical records](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/third-party-information-in-medical-records/628)
**Author:** [@pam56](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/pam56)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [29 September 2021 12:00 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/third-party-information-in-medical-records/628 "2021-09-29T12:00:03Z")
Ha Stephen Try telling that to SW & CCG!!! Yesterday I collected her medical records. Day before filled in form, showed them my LPA, photo ID & Household bill and hey presto gor a call back next day records ready on a … --- ## [Unsuitable Home](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/unsuitable-home/616)
**Author:** [@pam56](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/pam56)\ **Replies:** 26\ **Last updated:** [28 September 2021 20:30 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/unsuitable-home/616 "2021-09-28T20:30:49Z")
Good Morning. My Mum was setioned under s3 and now receives 117 aftercare. She is aged 93 suffers from complex Dementia, Diabetes, Stage 3 Kidney Disease and various other ailments. Originally the SW chose a Cat 3 Nur… --- ## [Independent psychiatrist needed for report in Essex area](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/independent-psychiatrist-needed-for-report-in-essex-area/626)
**Author:** [@catherine](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/catherine)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [21 September 2021 16:04 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/independent-psychiatrist-needed-for-report-in-essex-area/626 "2021-09-21T16:04:16Z")
Hi. I have a client who has fallen between LD and PD/mainstream services for years. Following a tribunal last year recommending transfer from an unsuitable PD ward to a LD placement, she was finally transferred to a spec… --- ## [Paternalism creeping back in ? Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/paternalism-creeping-back-in-police-crime-sentencing-and-courts-bill/622)
**Author:** [@Richard\_Rook](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Richard_Rook)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [19 September 2021 08:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/paternalism-creeping-back-in-police-crime-sentencing-and-courts-bill/622 "2021-09-19T08:25:30Z")
Bit niche this, but I see the current Police etc Bill includes a new general power for police (and others) to extract data from electronic devices with the device user’s agreement. I assume this is to fill a lacuna in th… --- ## [NR displacement application under S29(3)(c)(d) and extension of s2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-displacement-application-under-s29-3-c-d-and-extension-of-s2/617)
**Author:** [@lkerosevic](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/lkerosevic)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [17 September 2021 11:32 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-displacement-application-under-s29-3-c-d-and-extension-of-s2/617 "2021-09-17T11:32:57Z")
Recently found out that s29(4), the extension of s2 following application to displace a relative, only applies if the application is made on grounds (c) or (d) and not any other. Can anyone clarify, where an application… [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=30) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=32)