# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=28 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 29 --- ## [Appointees - practice questions and queries](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/appointees-practice-questions-and-queries/1187)
**Author:** [@JamesCodling](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JamesCodling)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [20 September 2022 08:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/appointees-practice-questions-and-queries/1187 "2022-09-20T08:25:13Z")
It has always been my understanding that Appointees who manage a person’s benefits where the person lacks capacity to do so, do not in fact fall within the scope of the MCA (see assessing-capacity-financial-decisions-gui… --- ## [Section 4 of MHA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-4-of-mha/1217)
**Author:** [@AS1975](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AS1975)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [16 September 2022 08:44 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-4-of-mha/1217 "2022-09-16T08:44:12Z")
Dear All, I would be interested in people’s views and experiences of using s4 of the MHA. To put the question into context I am a consultant psychiatrist in a large rural area, with a small number of s12 approved Drs. … --- ## [Restricted Patient recalled & new Hospital do not have Hospital Order](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/restricted-patient-recalled-new-hospital-do-not-have-hospital-order/1227)
**Author:** [@RKM](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/RKM)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [15 September 2022 20:16 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/restricted-patient-recalled-new-hospital-do-not-have-hospital-order/1227 "2022-09-15T20:16:02Z")
I would welcome thoughts on this issue. A restricted patient has been recalled on a s37/41. We have the recall warrant but the hospital appear not have the original Hospital Order. We are instructed to represent at the… --- ## [Discharging s117 for patient who disappeared overseas](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/discharging-s117-for-patient-who-disappeared-overseas/1200)
**Author:** [@Ngema](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Ngema)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [12 September 2022 17:23 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/discharging-s117-for-patient-who-disappeared-overseas/1200 "2022-09-12T17:23:53Z")
Dear Colleagues, “Peter” lives in a supported care provision and is receiving aftercare services under s117. He decides to go and visit his relatives abroad now getting to 4 months: in the past he has gone for about a m… --- ## [Multiple Deficiency in Support Provision](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/multiple-deficiency-in-support-provision/1222)
**Author:** [@Voidgrab](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Voidgrab)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [12 September 2022 16:07 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/multiple-deficiency-in-support-provision/1222 "2022-09-12T16:07:00Z")
I am an Advocate (Barrister) Practising in Scotland. By a slightly circuitous route, I have been approached by a person from the North East of London who has a multiplicity of problems - along with other people in a Gro… --- ## [Can Guardianship and CTO run at the same time?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-guardianship-and-cto-run-at-the-same-time/1208)
**Author:** [@Beatrice](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Beatrice)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [9 September 2022 09:32 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-guardianship-and-cto-run-at-the-same-time/1208 "2022-09-09T09:32:51Z")
If a patient is on CTO can they be put on guardianship at the same time? I have been asked this question but not even sure where to find the answer in Jones. --- ## [Dissatisfaction with Independent Advocate](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dissatisfaction-with-independent-advocate/1201)
**Author:** [@Barry](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Barry)\ **Replies:** 20\ **Last updated:** [7 September 2022 18:39 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dissatisfaction-with-independent-advocate/1201 "2022-09-07T18:39:09Z")
A Nearest Relative is concerned that the Independent Advocate appointed by the Local Authority is not representing the Patient’s wishes, as known by the NR. The NR has challenged the Advocate on the issue, but the Advoca… --- ## [S47/49 Determinate sentences and parole](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s47-49-determinate-sentences-and-parole/1188)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [27 August 2022 21:07 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s47-49-determinate-sentences-and-parole/1188 "2022-08-27T21:07:17Z")
Although I have dealt with a number of life sentenced prisoners and obtained parole hearings via s74 I find that I am unsure whether a transferred prisoner with a determinate sentence could also apply for parole via s74.… --- ## [“Voluntary” in terms of Ordinary Residence?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/voluntary-in-terms-of-ordinary-residence/1184)
**Author:** [@ZacSussex](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ZacSussex)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [22 August 2022 12:20 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/voluntary-in-terms-of-ordinary-residence/1184 "2022-08-22T12:20:18Z")
Hi All. Currently working on a s.117 dispute between LAs for a client. The issue has been boiled down to the meaning of “voluntary” within the Shah test for OR. If one were to be homeless and placed in a hostel in anoth… --- ## [CTO Patients in Prison](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-patients-in-prison/1181)
**Author:** [@MHAA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MHAA)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [21 August 2022 21:12 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-patients-in-prison/1181 "2022-08-21T21:12:32Z")
When a patient is subject to a CTO but then they are placed in prison are they still subject to the CTO? If so, who is responsible for their care such as consent to treatment and renewals? --- ## [Does anyone know what happened to the mental health legislation timeline website?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-anyone-know-what-happened-to-the-mental-health-legislation-timeline-website/1182)
**Author:** [@RogerP](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/RogerP)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [19 August 2022 09:10 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-anyone-know-what-happened-to-the-mental-health-legislation-timeline-website/1182 "2022-08-19T09:10:52Z")
There used to be a little website which traced a timeline of UK (or possibly just English and Welsh) mental health legislation through the centuries. As I recall it went way back, covering all the old Vagrancy Acts, the … --- ## [Form H5 unsigned by RC where Nearest Relative has been displaced](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/form-h5-unsigned-by-rc-where-nearest-relative-has-been-displaced/1180)
**Author:** [@sm52](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/sm52)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [18 August 2022 09:16 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/form-h5-unsigned-by-rc-where-nearest-relative-has-been-displaced/1180 "2022-08-18T09:16:29Z")
Hi, We have a situation whereby a patient who has been detained under Section 3 for many years has been transferred to a different facility. The new facility would not accept the transfer as the H5 form was not signed b… --- ## [Identification of Nearest Relative - living with foster parent for 10 years](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/identification-of-nearest-relative-living-with-foster-parent-for-10-years/1176)
**Author:** [@anonymous12](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous12)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [17 August 2022 15:58 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/identification-of-nearest-relative-living-with-foster-parent-for-10-years/1176 "2022-08-17T15:58:55Z")
Hi, if a patient has been living with a foster parent for 10 years and the patient is now an adult, would the foster parent be identified as the correct Nearest Relative over any biological parent who the patient still h… --- ## [Informal patient - Acute hospital - Not eating](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/informal-patient-acute-hospital-not-eating/1174)
**Author:** [@Jade1](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jade1)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [17 August 2022 07:27 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/informal-patient-acute-hospital-not-eating/1174 "2022-08-17T07:27:56Z")
We currently have an informal patient who has capacity in our Acute Mental Health Hospital. We have been monitoring their eating and drinking since admission due to the lack of food intake ( nothing was noted on referral… --- ## [How to get dad out of care home](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/how-to-get-dad-out-of-care-home/1166)
**Author:** [@Andred](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Andred)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [16 August 2022 06:40 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/how-to-get-dad-out-of-care-home/1166 "2022-08-16T06:40:56Z")
There is a court order for my dad to remain at a care home,he did not want to be there and allmost died due to negligence,he suffers heart disease, the manager says I have to go back to court to apply again, Surely there… --- ## [Use of Section 136, post MHAA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/use-of-section-136-post-mhaa/1165)
**Author:** [@MentalHealthCop](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MentalHealthCop)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [12 August 2022 16:20 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/use-of-section-136-post-mhaa/1165 "2022-08-12T16:20:04Z")
There are various situations in which the police are either asked to consider use of s136 after the person concerned has already been assessed under the MHA or where the police themselves decide to do so. Just two examp… --- ## [S117 aftercare](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare/1157)
**Author:** [@JadieH](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JadieH)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [12 August 2022 16:09 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare/1157 "2022-08-12T16:09:03Z")
Is anyone aware of any judgements or rulings made relating to cases where S117 aftercare support has not been recorded as such? I vaguely remember one ombudsman case in which the LA was fined for not having recorded a S… --- ## [Deferring conditional discharge to allow for deportation arrangements](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/deferring-conditional-discharge-to-allow-for-deportation-arrangements/1164)
**Author:** [@Rachel](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rachel)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [12 August 2022 08:49 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/deferring-conditional-discharge-to-allow-for-deportation-arrangements/1164 "2022-08-12T08:49:13Z")
Has anyone come across this scenario before of the MHU comments for a tribunal requesting that if a conditional discharge is granted, it is deferred to allow for a deportation order and CD to take concurrent effect? Woul… --- ## [Admission to hospital 5 days after s2 completed](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/admission-to-hospital-5-days-after-s2-completed/1161)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [10 August 2022 08:01 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/admission-to-hospital-5-days-after-s2-completed/1161 "2022-08-10T08:01:19Z")
A patient is detained under s136 in POS and s2 completed but a bed cannot be found for 4 days so the patient remains detained in POS. s2 starts from date of hospital admission so what is her status for those 4 days betw… --- ## [Electronic Forms - Deletions or Strikethrough](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/electronic-forms-deletions-or-strikethrough/1159)
**Author:** [@HeidiC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/HeidiC)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [9 August 2022 13:58 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/electronic-forms-deletions-or-strikethrough/1159 "2022-08-09T13:58:07Z")
We have had a Section 2 patient transfer to another Trust however, the receiving Trust has deemed the detention invalid because the AMHP had deleted phrases that were not applicable rather than just strike them through a… --- ## [Section 136 "Clock"](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-136-clock/1123)
**Author:** [@MentalHealthCop](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MentalHealthCop)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [29 July 2022 17:46 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-136-clock/1123 "2022-07-29T17:46:51Z")
Scenario for you with an exam question! — Someone is arrested for a minor crime whilst seriously mentally unwell They are assessed MHA in custody and deemed to require admission under s2 or s3 MHA There is no bed avail… --- ## [MHA assessment at private home](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-assessment-at-private-home/942)
**Author:** [@wellsj](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/wellsj)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [27 July 2022 08:52 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-assessment-at-private-home/942 "2022-07-27T08:52:37Z")
I have a rather basic and practical query. A patient is reported to be psychotic with v worrying delusions about his mother with whom he lives. Professionals visit to assess under the MHA. Mother is v frightened and giv… --- ## [Deportation and Recall](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/deportation-and-recall/1116)
**Author:** [@Rachel](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rachel)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [26 July 2022 09:08 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/deportation-and-recall/1116 "2022-07-26T09:08:36Z")
I have an interesting scenario I could benefit from the forum’s advice. I have a client who was subject to s37/41 and was deported to Iraq (his home country) in 2012 after his conditional discharge. He arrived here on a … --- ## [Detained in hospital under MCA -- can she change hospital?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/detained-in-hospital-under-mca-can-she-change-hospital/1109)
**Author:** [@marie](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/marie)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [25 July 2022 10:51 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/detained-in-hospital-under-mca-can-she-change-hospital/1109 "2022-07-25T10:51:04Z")
Apologies, this is a long story but am desperate for advice. My sister has stage 4 incurable cancer, diagnosed after litany of errors and incompetence – consultant dismissing worrying symotoms and putting everything dow… --- ## [Refusing to complete and share Needs assessments at discharge planning](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/refusing-to-complete-and-share-needs-assessments-at-discharge-planning/865)
**Author:** [@AJM](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AJM)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [24 July 2022 20:29 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/refusing-to-complete-and-share-needs-assessments-at-discharge-planning/865 "2022-07-24T20:29:59Z")
In middle of attempted discharge from psychiatric hospital as previously detailed. Discharge coordinator refuses to share nursing/ward/needs assessments and therefore can’t establish what my mothers needs are. Also ref… --- ## [Can RC's deferred s23 discharge be retracted?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-rcs-deferred-s23-discharge-be-retracted/1092)
**Author:** [@Lawyermentalhealth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Lawyermentalhealth)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [19 July 2022 06:53 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-rcs-deferred-s23-discharge-be-retracted/1092 "2022-07-19T06:53:51Z")
S.23 discharge advice needed. Dear all, i would welcome advice on the following matter. A patient is discharged by acting clinician (locum) by way of s23 which is filed at the Tribunal service. The clinician dates the d… --- ## [CTO and Barring Order](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-and-barring-order/1068)
**Author:** [@Porolli](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Porolli)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [15 July 2022 11:36 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-and-barring-order/1068 "2022-07-15T11:36:21Z")
I have a client on a CTO whose NR ordered her discharge, which was then barred by the RC. I got referred the client at this stage, expecting a Hospital Managers Hearing. However, the hospital is saying that as she has a… --- ## [Associate hospital managers panels and discharge](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/associate-hospital-managers-panels-and-discharge/1062)
**Author:** [@wellsj](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/wellsj)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [15 July 2022 11:11 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/associate-hospital-managers-panels-and-discharge/1062 "2022-07-15T11:11:27Z")
I do work on hospital managers panels at a secure psychiatric hospital. We often have decisions to make about detainability of patients who have been symptom-free for 6 months or more and have a good understanding of how… --- ## [Adjourned Restricted Hearing](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/adjourned-restricted-hearing/1079)
**Author:** [@Rob\_Beech](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rob_Beech)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [15 July 2022 10:44 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/adjourned-restricted-hearing/1079 "2022-07-15T10:44:03Z")
I’ve just had a s37/41 recall hearing where the Judge has insisted on adjourning. The reason for this is because the RC has changed her mind in the last few days and now supports conditional discharge but the MOJ haven’… --- ## [Place of safety and s140 query](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/place-of-safety-and-s140-query/1074)
**Author:** [@Madge](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Madge)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [13 July 2022 14:17 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/place-of-safety-and-s140-query/1074 "2022-07-13T14:17:08Z")
Can an AMHP come to my home carry out a mhaa and due to a lack of a bed take me to the place of safety on a s140? [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=27) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=29)