# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=27 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 28 --- ## [Definition of mental disorder](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/definition-of-mental-disorder/1350)
**Author:** [@Andy\_Howarth\_2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Andy_Howarth_2)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [10 November 2022 12:50 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/definition-of-mental-disorder/1350 "2022-11-10T12:50:31Z")
In a recent Tribunal, the judge asserted that (in an asymptomatic patient who had one psychotic episode some years ago) a brain lesion itself constitutes a mental disorder for the purposes of section 1. He based his ass… --- ## [Eligible for aftercare services & who is responsible?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/eligible-for-aftercare-services-who-is-responsible/1334)
**Author:** [@Ngema](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Ngema)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [9 November 2022 21:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/eligible-for-aftercare-services-who-is-responsible/1334 "2022-11-09T21:34:00Z")
P lives in borough B in a residential care home & responsibility for his care arrangements & funding is with borough A. He gets admitted initially unders s2 and during the admission its converted to a s3. Within a month… --- ## [Applying to COP for judicial actions investigation](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/applying-to-cop-for-judicial-actions-investigation/1286)
**Author:** [@AlisonKendall](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AlisonKendall)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [6 November 2022 14:10 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/applying-to-cop-for-judicial-actions-investigation/1286 "2022-11-06T14:10:33Z")
Has anybody got any experience in applying to the Court of Protection to seek information about a judicial matter, in this case, how a telephone capacity assessment was undertaken by one of their special visitors? I am … --- ## [Proposed change to MHA section 2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/proposed-change-to-mha-section-2/1337)
**Author:** [@Andrew](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Andrew)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [4 November 2022 18:52 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/proposed-change-to-mha-section-2/1337 "2022-11-04T18:52:23Z")
Currently section 2 a requires the presence of a mental disorder AND 2 b requires the presence of risk of harm. The proposed change deletes AND, this seems to me to open the possibility of interpreting the criteria for d… --- ## [Transfer from Scotland to England](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/transfer-from-scotland-to-england/1335)
**Author:** [@Shalinie](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Shalinie)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [4 November 2022 03:33 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/transfer-from-scotland-to-england/1335 "2022-11-04T03:33:33Z")
What paperwork is required? Don’t seem to have been sent the original equivalents of Section 2 or 3 but have the TX1 transfer form and 6 pages of the CTO 1 v6 but no DET1 --- ## [Conditional discharge preventing Parole Board from considering parole?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/conditional-discharge-preventing-parole-board-from-considering-parole/1291)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [3 November 2022 13:41 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/conditional-discharge-preventing-parole-board-from-considering-parole/1291 "2022-11-03T13:41:13Z")
DD v Sussex Partnership NHS Foundation Trust \[2022\] UKUT 166 (AAC) was about a change in status after a tribunal application, but in passing UTJ Edward Jacobs mentions that the prisoner’s conditional discharge “effective… --- ## [Poll on the proposed longer listing window for s2 tribunal cases](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/poll-on-the-proposed-longer-listing-window-for-s2-tribunal-cases/1148)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [3 November 2022 09:23 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/poll-on-the-proposed-longer-listing-window-for-s2-tribunal-cases/1148 "2022-11-03T09:23:14Z")
I’m partly curious how well polls work on this forum software – and partly curious what people think about Tribunal Procedure Committee, ‘Possible amendments to the Tribunal Procedure (FTT) (HESC) Rules 2008’ (consultati… --- ## [Section 3 expiry date](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-3-expiry-date/1329)
**Author:** [@Bianca](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Bianca)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [2 November 2022 22:14 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-3-expiry-date/1329 "2022-11-02T22:14:20Z")
Hi, so section 3 started on 31st October and expiry date calculated as 30/04 as this six months back one day. Query over expiry date being 29/04 instead as this is one day back from end of the month ? What is the consens… --- ## [Certificate in Mental Health Law](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/certificate-in-mental-health-law/1299)
**Author:** [@AS1975](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AS1975)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [1 November 2022 11:14 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/certificate-in-mental-health-law/1299 "2022-11-01T11:14:36Z")
Hello all, I know that Northumbria University offers this. A colleague is keen to do it but it is oversubscribed and she cannot get a place until 2024. Is anyone aware of any other places that offer it? bw Adnan --- ## [Do you know anyone who has obtained Welfare deputyship?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/do-you-know-anyone-who-has-obtained-welfare-deputyship/1310)
**Author:** [@Beelawtutor](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Beelawtutor)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [28 October 2022 16:24 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/do-you-know-anyone-who-has-obtained-welfare-deputyship/1310 "2022-10-28T16:24:41Z")
Has anyone obtained Deputyship for Health and Welfare? I have been helping family member (J) who is deputy for property and affairs complete the paperwork to apply for Health and Welfare deputyship for an adult child… --- ## [S117 aftercare - person moving back to home country permanently](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare-person-moving-back-to-home-country-permanently/1305)
**Author:** [@Jacqueline](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jacqueline)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [27 October 2022 17:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare-person-moving-back-to-home-country-permanently/1305 "2022-10-27T17:03:46Z")
Hi, a colleague has raised the following query and I would be interested in people’s views. “ A person detained on S37 will be moving back to their home country on discharge, does S117 end automatically or should there… --- ## [CTO informal patient -- transfer of care](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-informal-patient-transfer-of-care/1300)
**Author:** [@Josiec2022](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Josiec2022)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [22 October 2022 07:46 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-informal-patient-transfer-of-care/1300 "2022-10-22T07:46:46Z")
A cto patient is recalled and admitted to hospital. The patient decides to stay in hospital informal. The community rc transfer the rc status and responsibilities to inpatient consultant. If the patient is still an inpat… --- ## [Have pre-hearing examinations in Wales recommenced?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/have-pre-hearing-examinations-in-wales-recommenced/1292)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [21 October 2022 09:19 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/have-pre-hearing-examinations-in-wales-recommenced/1292 "2022-10-21T09:19:02Z")
The last I heard was back in May 2022 and at that point there hadn’t been any PHEs since the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic. What is the current situation? The reason I ask is that the updated Law Society, ‘Pract… --- ## [Conveyance of incapacitated but refusing patient between hospitals](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/conveyance-of-incapacitated-but-refusing-patient-between-hospitals/1279)
**Author:** [@SCollins](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/SCollins)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [19 October 2022 10:56 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/conveyance-of-incapacitated-but-refusing-patient-between-hospitals/1279 "2022-10-19T10:56:07Z")
Morning all, i was hoping someone could point me in the direction of some case law or guidance. we are moving award and its patient back to its original location after a period of refurbishment. the lady is subjected … --- ## [S136 and prior use of pepper (PAVA) spray](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s136-and-prior-use-of-pepper-pava-spray/1287)
**Author:** [@Cayman](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Cayman)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [18 October 2022 16:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s136-and-prior-use-of-pepper-pava-spray/1287 "2022-10-18T16:03:27Z")
I’m formally someone that spent a lot of time under s.136 and just trying to get some changes made (I know I’m aiming high). Anyway I wonder if any of you are anywhere near a s.136 suite/place of safety if you can inves… --- ## [When 3 panel members (Hospital Managers) cannot agree on discharge](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-3-panel-members-hospital-managers-cannot-agree-on-discharge/1282)
**Author:** [@Beatrice](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Beatrice)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [14 October 2022 11:36 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-3-panel-members-hospital-managers-cannot-agree-on-discharge/1282 "2022-10-14T11:36:19Z")
I have been looking for information on what happens when the three panel members (Hospital managers) can not agree to a discharge. Do you get a fourth member and hold the hearing again or do you get a completely new pan… --- ## [Acting for prisoners seeking transfer to hospital](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/acting-for-prisoners-seeking-transfer-to-hospital/1259)
**Author:** [@anonymous13](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous13)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [13 October 2022 14:21 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/acting-for-prisoners-seeking-transfer-to-hospital/1259 "2022-10-13T14:21:55Z")
Has anybody got experience of this? Am I right in thinking that we can now do this under a MH contract? --- ## [S3 start date and time](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s3-start-date-and-time/1274)
**Author:** [@AbbeyWeston](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AbbeyWeston)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [13 October 2022 12:47 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s3-start-date-and-time/1274 "2022-10-13T12:47:49Z")
I hope this is the right place to post. Pt on s2 which was ending 12th. Pt was assessed on 10th and assured papers would be sent through. These were not received until 13th which was after the s2 end date. I have always… --- ## [Section 117 - Can the duty be ended before discharge based on an assessment that there are no aftercare needs?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-can-the-duty-be-ended-before-discharge-based-on-an-assessment-that-there-are-no-aftercare-needs/1093)
**Author:** [@mick99](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/mick99)\ **Replies:** 13\ **Last updated:** [11 October 2022 16:19 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-can-the-duty-be-ended-before-discharge-based-on-an-assessment-that-there-are-no-aftercare-needs/1093 "2022-10-11T16:19:19Z")
Detention under a s.117 qualifying section imposes a duty on the relevant statutory bodies to provide aftercare to meet assessed needs. What are the duties and responsibilities of the statutory health and social care bo… --- ## [Can a person have two sets of LPAs registered and active with the COP, and if they do, which takes precedence?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-a-person-have-two-sets-of-lpas-registered-and-active-with-the-cop-and-if-they-do-which-takes-precedence/1267)
**Author:** [@ChrisD](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ChrisD)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [11 October 2022 15:56 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-a-person-have-two-sets-of-lpas-registered-and-active-with-the-cop-and-if-they-do-which-takes-precedence/1267 "2022-10-11T15:56:15Z")
I have come across an unusual situation where it seems a person, detained under MHA, has two sets of registered LPAs (H&W / P&F), the first was registered 5 years ago and the second set, earlier this year, with a differe… --- ## [Status of MHA patient information leaflets](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/status-of-mha-patient-information-leaflets/1245)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [5 October 2022 09:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/status-of-mha-patient-information-leaflets/1245 "2022-10-05T09:34:40Z")
Does anybody know the current situation with the MHA patient information leaflets? The only two I can find now on Gov.uk are the s135 and s136 leaflets from 2018. The others have been archived for ages – but someone poi… --- ## [Section 37/41 after a 47/49?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-37-41-after-a-47-49/1238)
**Author:** [@anonymous14](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous14)\ **Replies:** 10\ **Last updated:** [4 October 2022 14:13 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-37-41-after-a-47-49/1238 "2022-10-04T14:13:12Z")
Hi, what happens if a patient who is already detained under a s47/49 then receives a s37/41 Hospital Order? Does the 37/41 start and the s47/49 end? --- ## [Advice/support COP&SGO for disabled brother](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/advice-support-cop-sgo-for-disabled-brother/1234)
**Author:** [@Nel](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Nel)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [4 October 2022 12:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/advice-support-cop-sgo-for-disabled-brother/1234 "2022-10-04T12:26:27Z")
I do a lot of grassroots journalism and advocacy for ethnic minorities and marginalised groups. I find people try to hide behind bureaucracy and tried to confuse me so that I’m not able to find an answer in my favour. Fo… --- ## [Children Act, Human Rights Act and MHA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/children-act-human-rights-act-and-mha/1253)
**Author:** [@Taylor](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Taylor)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [2 October 2022 09:57 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/children-act-human-rights-act-and-mha/1253 "2022-10-02T09:57:34Z")
Hello so i have recently heard about a situation were a 14 year old informal patient requesting to self discharge (who was told they did not meet the criteria for s5(4) was told they could be keept under s25 of the child… --- ## [The use of the the Serenity Integrated Mentoring Scheme or any similar type Scheme](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/the-use-of-the-the-serenity-integrated-mentoring-scheme-or-any-similar-type-scheme/1247)
**Author:** [@NWJ](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/NWJ)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [2 October 2022 07:33 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/the-use-of-the-the-serenity-integrated-mentoring-scheme-or-any-similar-type-scheme/1247 "2022-10-02T07:33:33Z")
Does anyone have any knowledge of legal challenges to the use of the the Serenity Integrated Mentoring Scheme or any similar type Scheme by NHS Trusts and the Police --- ## [Dementia and finances - capacity to execute LPA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dementia-and-finances-capacity-to-execute-lpa/1232)
**Author:** [@species8472](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/species8472)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [26 September 2022 10:39 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dementia-and-finances-capacity-to-execute-lpa/1232 "2022-09-26T10:39:01Z")
I have a patient with vascular dementia. At his best he understands the pros and cons of an LPA. He even noted that his daughter would not be a good choice, because she would give in to his demands. At times he is a lot … --- ## [Appeal tribunal decision, reapply or both?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/appeal-tribunal-decision-reapply-or-both/1237)
**Author:** [@anonymous13](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous13)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [24 September 2022 18:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/appeal-tribunal-decision-reapply-or-both/1237 "2022-09-24T18:34:09Z")
A tribunal has just upheld my client’s section in circumstances which I feel may well be open to appeal- although I have yet to receive the written decision. My client wants to challenge her section and can appeal again … --- ## [S117 Aftercare Dispute - (possible referral)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare-dispute-possible-referral/1235)
**Author:** [@Rob\_Beech](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rob_Beech)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [22 September 2022 09:08 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare-dispute-possible-referral/1235 "2022-09-22T09:08:01Z")
I have a client in a private ABI placement in the North West who is detained under s37/41 He lacks capacity to instruct and I have represented him under 11(7)(B) on occasions. During the course of the last Tribunal a l… --- ## [Help to refuse hospital move](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/help-to-refuse-hospital-move/1229)
**Author:** [@Dids123](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Dids123)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [21 September 2022 22:06 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/help-to-refuse-hospital-move/1229 "2022-09-21T22:06:32Z")
Hi My 17 year old daughter is in a GAU under section 3 and they want to move her to a PICU. She had been aggressive and assaulted staff but had been stable for 14 days. The move is not the issue its the specific hospita… --- ## [Tribunal lay person](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-lay-person/1230)
**Author:** [@Clare](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Clare)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [20 September 2022 14:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-lay-person/1230 "2022-09-20T14:25:46Z")
Hi All, Does anybody know where or how to apply to be a lay person on a MHA Tribunal, please? Thanks [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=26) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=28)