# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=23 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 24 --- ## [MOJ adding a condition to a conditional discharge](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/moj-adding-a-condition-to-a-conditional-discharge/1910)
**Author:** [@anonymous26](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous26)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [9 October 2023 21:50 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/moj-adding-a-condition-to-a-conditional-discharge/1910 "2023-10-09T21:50:33Z")
I’ve come across a situation where a client was conditionally discharged from a s37/41 a few months ago, and the panel decided not to impose a condition of an exclusion zone. He has since received a letter from the MOJ a… --- ## [Statutory assessments under MHA & Interpreters](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/statutory-assessments-under-mha-interpreters/1903)
**Author:** [@Ngema](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Ngema)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [9 October 2023 09:33 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/statutory-assessments-under-mha-interpreters/1903 "2023-10-09T09:33:36Z")
Good evening colleagues, Post covid , where do we stand by law about MHA assessments and interpretation? I am aware that assessments need and must be done face to face. It is becoming more of a usual practice that inter… --- ## [Can RCs defer s23 discharge to a future date/time?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-rcs-defer-s23-discharge-to-a-future-date-time/1894)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [4 October 2023 22:48 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-rcs-defer-s23-discharge-to-a-future-date-time/1894 "2023-10-04T22:48:08Z")
Is there a definitive answer to this question? And what is the effect when it’s attempted – does discharge happen immediately, on the future date/time, or not at all? I’ve just realised that what makes RCs think they c… --- ## [Time limits for appealing against hospital orders](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/time-limits-for-appealing-against-hospital-orders/1906)
**Author:** [@Wendy](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Wendy)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [4 October 2023 15:30 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/time-limits-for-appealing-against-hospital-orders/1906 "2023-10-04T15:30:29Z")
I have seen two documents that say if someone does not agree with the court in regards to their S37/41 they can appeal to the court, one document states within 21 days and another states within 28 days. Does anyone know… --- ## [Lawfulness of back-to-back CTO recalls](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-back-to-back-cto-recalls/1888)
**Author:** [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [29 September 2023 11:35 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-back-to-back-cto-recalls/1888 "2023-09-29T11:35:43Z")
If a patient is recall, but they can’t get an AMHP out in time to complete the revoke, When the 72hrs is up the authority holding the CTO transfers to the authority to the hospital they are at and the RC there, immediate… --- ## [Nearest Relative request to discharge AWOL patient](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-request-to-discharge-awol-patient/1885)
**Author:** [@Beatrice](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Beatrice)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [26 September 2023 20:59 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-request-to-discharge-awol-patient/1885 "2023-09-26T20:59:58Z")
A patient was taken out by the nearest relative on escorted leave. NR has refused to bring them back after the leave expired and has now written to request to discharge. I am thinking NR request to discharge is to disc… --- ## [Who is responsible for out-of-area MHA assessment?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/who-is-responsible-for-out-of-area-mha-assessment/1410)
**Author:** [@JTJT](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JTJT)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [16 December 2022 11:44 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/who-is-responsible-for-out-of-area-mha-assessment/1410 "2022-12-16T11:44:20Z")
Local Authority A place patient on Section 2. Patient is admitted to private hospital out of area. Section 3 is requested. Local Authority A is refusing to assess. Hospital are stating that LA B where hospital is will … --- ## [Deferred s23 discharge and CTO scheduled for exactly the same time](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/deferred-s23-discharge-and-cto-scheduled-for-exactly-the-same-time/1874)
**Author:** [@Amy](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Amy)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [25 September 2023 13:20 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/deferred-s23-discharge-and-cto-scheduled-for-exactly-the-same-time/1874 "2023-09-25T13:20:39Z")
Hi, Wondered if we could get some advice? We have a client who we have received a S.23 notice discharging them at 1pm, however we then received a CTO1 making the client subject to a CTO at 1pm on the same day. Does thi… --- ## [Lawfulness of conditions of residence](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-conditions-of-residence/1876)
**Author:** [@Ngema](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Ngema)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [25 September 2023 11:38 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-conditions-of-residence/1876 "2023-09-25T11:38:03Z")
Continuing the discussion from CTO & s117 responsibility: I thought “residing at a particular place/ address” cannot be a CTO condition and only DoLS can cover residing ar condition…… --- ## [Can a hospital admission be defined as after-care?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-a-hospital-admission-be-defined-as-after-care/1800)
**Author:** [@Nickwoo](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Nickwoo)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [24 September 2023 22:09 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-a-hospital-admission-be-defined-as-after-care/1800 "2023-09-24T22:09:05Z")
Just been reading the Worcestershire decision from the Supreme Court. Paragraph 53 says " 1. We do not agree, however, that this consequence follows. What takes a person outside the class of persons specified in sectio… --- ## [Victim personal statements - Not guilty by reason of insanity](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/victim-personal-statements-not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity/359)
**Author:** [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [18 September 2023 14:46 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/victim-personal-statements-not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity/359 "2023-09-18T14:46:08Z")
I understand the defence in a recent homicide & wounding case has objected to the victim reading out their Victim Personal Statement before sentencing. The defendant was found not guilty by reason of insanity (which I un… --- ## [Legal Aid - Which level should we claim?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/legal-aid-which-level-should-we-claim/1861)
**Author:** [@RKM](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/RKM)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [16 September 2023 22:43 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/legal-aid-which-level-should-we-claim/1861 "2023-09-16T22:43:27Z")
This may be a long shot but we had a situation where we made an application on behalf of P to withdraw his Tribunal application midway through the hearing, due to information disclosed by the Care Co within her evidence … --- ## [LAA - Can we claim for time spent typing?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/laa-can-we-claim-for-time-spent-typing/1862)
**Author:** [@anonymous26](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous26)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [15 September 2023 13:27 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/laa-can-we-claim-for-time-spent-typing/1862 "2023-09-15T13:27:34Z")
Hi, is it possible to claim time spent typing attendance notes? --- ## [Hearings following Form M2 barring NR discharge](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/hearings-following-form-m2-barring-nr-discharge/1690)
**Author:** [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Replies:** 13\ **Last updated:** [11 September 2023 14:45 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/hearings-following-form-m2-barring-nr-discharge/1690 "2023-09-11T14:45:29Z")
If a RC completes a M2 barring NR discharge does the hospital have to hold a managers hearing or tribunal or is it up to the NR to apply. Many thanks --- ## [Record of detention forms - H3](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/record-of-detention-forms-h3/1839)
**Author:** [@anonymous26](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous26)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [7 September 2023 11:56 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/record-of-detention-forms-h3/1839 "2023-09-07T11:56:52Z")
Hi, on the record of detention form (H3), how long does the hospital manager have to sign the form after the application was received? --- ## [When does Supreme Court decision in Worcestershire County Council case come into effect?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-does-supreme-court-decision-in-worcestershire-county-council-case-come-into-effect/1840)
**Author:** [@davidseward](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/davidseward)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [6 September 2023 23:56 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-does-supreme-court-decision-in-worcestershire-county-council-case-come-into-effect/1840 "2023-09-06T23:56:40Z")
Continuing the discussion from Case (Ordinary residence and s117). R (Worcestershire County Council) v SSHSC \[2023\] UKSC 31: Hi, with the Supreme Court ruling, does it come into effect straight away? So if someone was d… --- ## [Tribunal application 48/49-37/41](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-application-48-49-37-41/1823)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [4 September 2023 21:18 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-application-48-49-37-41/1823 "2023-09-04T21:18:12Z")
Just for info… My client appealed to MHT when on 48/49 and was placed on 37/41 before the hearing. The MoJ filed a supplementary statement stating that the MHT should decide whether the appeal should proceed and that th… --- ## [What are you rights if you are to be sectioned?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/what-are-you-rights-if-you-are-to-be-sectioned/1821)
**Author:** [@justice](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/justice)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [2 September 2023 15:08 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/what-are-you-rights-if-you-are-to-be-sectioned/1821 "2023-09-02T15:08:31Z")
Are you entitled to a mental health lawyer before Section 2 is applied? If the provisions under Section 2 have not been adhered to will you be compensated? What if the there has been malpractice or unethical conduct by… --- ## [Power to detain AWOL patients](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/power-to-detain-awol-patients/1824)
**Author:** [@NW2521](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/NW2521)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [1 September 2023 16:41 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/power-to-detain-awol-patients/1824 "2023-09-01T16:41:51Z")
Can I ask for some advice please on the below, Section 18 MHA provides a power for an AWOL patient to to be detained and returned to hospital. Recently I have been told by a few colleagues that this power only applies … --- ## [CTO1 - incorrect information](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto1-incorrect-information/1752)
**Author:** [@Cheryl](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Cheryl)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [31 August 2023 13:04 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto1-incorrect-information/1752 "2023-08-31T13:04:41Z")
A CTO1 with the patient address listed as X hospital rather than X street. The address is also different to the one listed as a condition of residence. The MHAA has added file note stating that as the addresses are stil… --- ## [Should the Law Society give the MHT accreditation scheme back to the SRA?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/should-the-law-society-give-the-mht-accreditation-scheme-back-to-the-sra/1798)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [30 August 2023 09:35 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/should-the-law-society-give-the-mht-accreditation-scheme-back-to-the-sra/1798 "2023-08-30T09:35:42Z")
The SRA took over all the accreditation schemes a few years ago, including the mental health panel, but in 2009 handed some back to the Law Society. The rationale was that the SRA should run the mandatory schemes (eg for… --- ## [Sodium valproate and T3’s](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/sodium-valproate-and-t3-s/1814)
**Author:** [@Paul1](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Paul1)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [29 August 2023 14:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/sodium-valproate-and-t3-s/1814 "2023-08-29T14:26:43Z")
Hello everyone. I hope you all well. I’ve been told that sodium valproate is not licensed as an anti manic. However, some of our patients with T3’s have sodium valproate as an anti manic. Does anyone have thoughts about … --- ## [Secretary of State discharge of Restricted Patients](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/secretary-of-state-discharge-of-restricted-patients/1812)
**Author:** [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [28 August 2023 22:10 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/secretary-of-state-discharge-of-restricted-patients/1812 "2023-08-28T22:10:22Z")
Is there any guidance or law on the criteria for the discharge of Restricted patients by the Secretary of State alone (ie without a Tribunal)? I’ve not been able to find any. I’m struggling to understand why some restr… --- ## [Six-month reference and notional s37 patients](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/six-month-reference-and-notional-s37-patients/1803)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [25 August 2023 14:05 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/six-month-reference-and-notional-s37-patients/1803 "2023-08-25T14:05:08Z")
Apparently some hospitals make the reference 6 months after the notional s37 commences, and the tribunal secretariat accepts this without question. At other hospitals the first reference is made at the one- or three-year… --- ## [When does the “3 years” start for the purposes of s.68(6) MHA?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-does-the-3-years-start-for-the-purposes-of-s-68-6-mha/1572)
**Author:** [@IANCAMPBELL](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/IANCAMPBELL)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [22 August 2023 10:44 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-does-the-3-years-start-for-the-purposes-of-s-68-6-mha/1572 "2023-08-22T10:44:12Z")
When does the “3 years” start for the purposes of s.68(6) MHA? Client received her s.37 order in April 2020 and has not had a MHT since. S.68(6) MHT: “The managers of the hospital shall also refer the patient’s case to… --- ## [CTO and NR instructed discharge](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-and-nr-instructed-discharge/1795)
**Author:** [@PaulH58](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/PaulH58)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [21 August 2023 08:16 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-and-nr-instructed-discharge/1795 "2023-08-21T08:16:07Z")
Apologies for starters I am relying on a rather old Jones for information so it may be that later case decisions have intervened. A Nearest Relative instructs discharge of patient detained under s.3. RC feels threshold… --- ## [Determining s117 responsibility for s47 transfers](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/determining-s117-responsibility-for-s47-transfers/1790)
**Author:** [@JadieH](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JadieH)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [19 August 2023 21:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/determining-s117-responsibility-for-s47-transfers/1790 "2023-08-19T21:25:54Z")
I’m looking to figure out how we determine which LA/ICB is responsible for a patient who was initially sentenced to prison but was then transferred to hospital when they became unwell? I presume that it will be the area … --- ## [Section 37 - further offence and patient now in prison on remand](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-37-further-offence-and-patient-now-in-prison-on-remand/1786)
**Author:** [@Saralou50](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Saralou50)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [18 August 2023 11:41 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-37-further-offence-and-patient-now-in-prison-on-remand/1786 "2023-08-18T11:41:06Z")
We have a patient who is currently on a S37 who has committed a further offence and is now on remand in prison. The risks are too high to return to the unit. Does the S37 remain or will the remand in prison end it? --- ## [Timing discharge of MHA detention with start of MCA detention](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/timing-discharge-of-mha-detention-with-start-of-mca-detention/1792)
**Author:** [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [18 August 2023 07:45 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/timing-discharge-of-mha-detention-with-start-of-mca-detention/1792 "2023-08-18T07:45:41Z")
Hi Might be a silly question, if a patient is on a S3 and is going to be transferred, a COPDOLS has just be submitted for their new placement. Does the RC have to rescind the S3, how and when does the S3 end, and when d… --- ## [Review of S3 Renewal following transfer to another hospital](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/review-of-s3-renewal-following-transfer-to-another-hospital/1785)
**Author:** [@confused](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/confused)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [4 August 2023 14:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/review-of-s3-renewal-following-transfer-to-another-hospital/1785 "2023-08-04T14:03:31Z")
Dear All A patient has had their detention renewed at Hospital A which was not reviewed by the managers at hospital A. They transfer to Hospital B. I am sure I have read somewhere that the managers of Hospital B can a… [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=22) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=24)