# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=21 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 22 --- ## [Release from ward of sectioned person without s17 in exceptional circumstances ](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/release-from-ward-of-sectioned-person-without-s17-in-exceptional-circumstances/2114)
**Author:** [@Taylor](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Taylor)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [5 January 2024 09:08 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/release-from-ward-of-sectioned-person-without-s17-in-exceptional-circumstances/2114 "2024-01-05T09:08:07Z")
Can a nurse legally let a patient on section off a ward without s17 in exceptional circumstances? For example if an ambulance was with a patient for say a cardiac arrest would the nurse have to wait for s17 to be writte… --- ## [Is absconding a criminal offence?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/is-absconding-a-criminal-offence/2112)
**Author:** [@Taylor](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Taylor)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [5 January 2024 00:16 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/is-absconding-a-criminal-offence/2112 "2024-01-05T00:16:15Z")
Dose a patient commit a criminal offence if they abscond from compulsory treatment under the MHA ? I am awear that it is an offence to assist a patient to abscond under section 128 MHA but dose the patient them selves c… --- ## [Independent expert evidence for Managers Review](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/independent-expert-evidence-for-managers-review/2099)
**Author:** [@RKM](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/RKM)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [2 January 2024 10:47 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/independent-expert-evidence-for-managers-review/2099 "2024-01-02T10:47:54Z")
I have a client who is unable to have a tribunal, as one had already taken place within the eligibility period. A managers review has been requested but they would like an independent expert to assess them and if approp… --- ## [CTO11 and CTO12 review/renewal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto11-and-cto12-review-renewal/2095)
**Author:** [@JuliaM](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JuliaM)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [21 December 2023 16:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto11-and-cto12-review-renewal/2095 "2023-12-21T16:34:44Z")
How often should these forms be reviewed? i.e. if there is no other change to consent, capacity etc. Many thanks. --- ## [S3 patient court appearance](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s3-patient-court-appearance/2093)
**Author:** [@S4mathew](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/S4mathew)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [19 December 2023 20:10 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s3-patient-court-appearance/2093 "2023-12-19T20:10:09Z")
Hello everyone I have a doubt. One of my section 4 patients have a court hearing on next week. He is at risk of absconding. So 2 staffs escorting him. Is it ok to take him on normal taxi ? Or shall I book secured transp… --- ## [Funding psychiatric report in criminal proceedings](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/funding-psychiatric-report-in-criminal-proceedings/1471)
**Author:** [@NWJ](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/NWJ)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [18 December 2023 10:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/funding-psychiatric-report-in-criminal-proceedings/1471 "2023-12-18T10:34:12Z")
Who funds the cost of a Court obtaining a psychiatric report on a defendant under Criminal Procedure Rule 3.10? For example does the funding come from HMCTS or the MOJ or another organisation and how do the Court go abo… --- ## [Revocation of CTO patient and s.21 MHA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/revocation-of-cto-patient-and-s-21-mha/2089)
**Author:** [@anonymous28](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous28)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [16 December 2023 22:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/revocation-of-cto-patient-and-s-21-mha/2089 "2023-12-16T22:26:00Z")
Dear all A CTO patient did not attend appointments to allow RC to examine patient for purpose of extending CTO within the 2 months of section expiry. Two days before the CTO authority was due to lapse a recall notice w… --- ## [RC barring s3 discharge then putting patient on CTO](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rc-barring-s3-discharge-then-putting-patient-on-cto/2083)
**Author:** [@Jojo](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jojo)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [14 December 2023 22:55 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rc-barring-s3-discharge-then-putting-patient-on-cto/2083 "2023-12-14T22:55:15Z")
Hi If an RC bars a NR request for discharge of a S.3 patient, then puts the patient on a CTO before the Managers have reivewed the Order, does the Managers review have to still go ahead? --- ## [Patient refuses vital signs monitoring on clozapine titration](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/patient-refuses-vital-signs-monitoring-on-clozapine-titration/2078)
**Author:** [@S4mathew](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/S4mathew)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [8 December 2023 10:04 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/patient-refuses-vital-signs-monitoring-on-clozapine-titration/2078 "2023-12-08T10:04:41Z")
Hi One of our patients detained under section 3, keep on refusing vital signs monitoring and blood tests. He complained about body pain and feeling dizzy. One of our team members told him no leave until his physical he… --- ## [Delay between examination and signature on medical recommendation](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/delay-between-examination-and-signature-on-medical-recommendation/2081)
**Author:** [@lkerosevic](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/lkerosevic)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [7 December 2023 14:09 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/delay-between-examination-and-signature-on-medical-recommendation/2081 "2023-12-07T14:09:48Z")
Continuing the discussion from Time period between s2 recommendation and application: Jumping on the back of this thread…are there any legal barriers to med recs signed & dated some days/ a week after the examination da… --- ## [Time period between s2 recommendation and application](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/time-period-between-s2-recommendation-and-application/2051)
**Author:** [@S4mathew](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/S4mathew)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [29 November 2023 23:28 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/time-period-between-s2-recommendation-and-application/2051 "2023-11-29T23:28:51Z")
Hello everyone One of my colleagues received a patient on section 2 and gave me the paperwork to complete the process ( he received the patient at the end of his shift) but while I was checking the A4 ( medical recomme… --- ## [Impact of Manchester v JS](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/impact-of-manchester-v-js/2033)
**Author:** [@mardydave](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/mardydave)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [6 December 2023 19:28 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/impact-of-manchester-v-js/2033 "2023-12-06T19:28:39Z")
Hi all, Colleagues and I have been having a debate about this. Some feel the JS case restores the primacy of the MHA from GJ, so making AM v SLAM redundant. Others feel AM v SLAM is still relevant. I would be interest… --- ## [Practice paperwork for AMHP course](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/practice-paperwork-for-amhp-course/2062)
**Author:** [@Taylor](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Taylor)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [1 December 2023 19:18 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/practice-paperwork-for-amhp-course/2062 "2023-12-01T19:18:06Z")
Hi all, If anyone has any fake example, complete, legaly robust, section papers, amhp reports or 135 warant applications for fake patients, that they could send. That I could you ues as examples that wold be grate. I’… --- ## [Can I admit without AMHP documents?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-i-admit-without-amhp-documents/2039)
**Author:** [@S4mathew](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/S4mathew)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [29 November 2023 18:39 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-i-admit-without-amhp-documents/2039 "2023-11-29T18:39:15Z")
can I admit a patients on section 2 without AMPH paperwork. they promise me paper by next day as they have some technical issues. is it legal to admit a patient without AMPH referral in hand. please advise me --- ## [Rule 11(7)(b) - Can we claim level 1?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rule-11-7-b-can-we-claim-level-1/2037)
**Author:** [@anonymous26](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous26)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [29 November 2023 13:01 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rule-11-7-b-can-we-claim-level-1/2037 "2023-11-29T13:01:36Z")
Hi, if we are appointed under rule 11(7)(b) but the client was discharged before we had the opportunity to visit them, can a level 1 claim be made? Initial work was carried out such as sending initial letters and request… --- ## [Circumstances in which patient can change nearest relative](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/circumstances-in-which-patient-can-change-nearest-relative/2044)
**Author:** [@Rosemaryherb](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rosemaryherb)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [29 November 2023 11:29 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/circumstances-in-which-patient-can-change-nearest-relative/2044 "2023-11-29T11:29:51Z")
Continuing the discussion from Contacting NR without patient’s consent: Although there is a to speak to the NR - the patient has a right to CHANGE their NR. --- ## [Contacting NR without patient's consent](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/contacting-nr-without-patients-consent/2042)
**Author:** [@NewSocialWorker1](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/NewSocialWorker1)\ **Replies:** 10\ **Last updated:** [29 November 2023 11:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/contacting-nr-without-patients-consent/2042 "2023-11-29T11:26:17Z")
Hi all, I am completing a Social Circumstances Report for MHT. Patient detained under s3. He did not give consent to contact his mother (NR within the meaning of the Act). Am I oblige to speak with the NR without the pat… --- ## [Nearest Relative information leaflets in other languages](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-information-leaflets-in-other-languages/2043)
**Author:** [@Beth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Beth)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [29 November 2023 11:24 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-information-leaflets-in-other-languages/2043 "2023-11-29T11:24:28Z")
Hello, I was wondering if anyone had any links or resources for information leaflets for nearest relatives regarding their rights in different languages? thanks --- ## [Giving client copies of section papers](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/giving-client-copies-of-section-papers/2031)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [28 November 2023 12:08 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/giving-client-copies-of-section-papers/2031 "2023-11-28T12:08:44Z")
If your client wants copies of their section papers but you are aware that they are planning to harass the AMHP who sectioned them, would you simply hand them over? --- ## [Current MOJ policy on residence conditions and addresses](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/current-moj-policy-on-residence-conditions-and-addresses/2027)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [27 November 2023 09:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/current-moj-policy-on-residence-conditions-and-addresses/2027 "2023-11-27T09:25:11Z")
A few years ago the Ministry of Justice lost track of a patient, then published a new policy that all conditionally discharged patients were to have a residence condition containing an address, and that the MOJ would add… --- ## [Tribunal directing deferred discharge](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-directing-deferred-discharge/2022)
**Author:** [@NickyGatland](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/NickyGatland)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [25 November 2023 21:20 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-directing-deferred-discharge/2022 "2023-11-25T21:20:39Z")
I have a client who is under Section 2 due to expire monday at midnight. The panel advised that they do not find nature or degree. In relation to risks dont find health and protection of others namely arguments in famil… --- ## [Date missing on AMHP's application - invalid detention?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/date-missing-on-amhps-application-invalid-detention/2025)
**Author:** [@Sophie\_Holloway](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Sophie_Holloway)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [25 November 2023 14:21 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/date-missing-on-amhps-application-invalid-detention/2025 "2023-11-25T14:21:10Z")
Hi, I have just been looking at the original section 3 papers for a client whose section began in 2015. In the AMHP application, where they are asked to put the date on which they met with in order to confirm that the … --- ## [S117 Aftercare - Free Prescriptions](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare-free-prescriptions/1424)
**Author:** [@Mark](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Mark)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [24 November 2023 11:44 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-aftercare-free-prescriptions/1424 "2023-11-24T11:44:43Z")
My daughter was sectioned under s3 of the MHA and subsequently discharged. My understanding is that she is entitled to s117 aftercare due to being detained under s3. I have been arguing that she should receive free ment… --- ## [Incorrect NR identified on Section 3 AMHP application](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/incorrect-nr-identified-on-section-3-amhp-application/2018)
**Author:** [@anonymous28](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous28)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [23 November 2023 17:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/incorrect-nr-identified-on-section-3-amhp-application/2018 "2023-11-23T17:26:08Z")
Hi So AMHP has consulted and named a NR in their application for s3 who had delegated their role to another person in 2018 to run indefinitely. Having checked the delegation to ensure it hasn’t ended in the ways that it… --- ## [Committing offence while detained under section 136 at place of safety and awaiting assessment](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/committing-offence-while-detained-under-section-136-at-place-of-safety-and-awaiting-assessment/2020)
**Author:** [@prex1971](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/prex1971)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [23 November 2023 17:17 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/committing-offence-while-detained-under-section-136-at-place-of-safety-and-awaiting-assessment/2020 "2023-11-23T17:17:48Z")
In a nutshell it seems like a simple question, If a person detained under section 136 at a Place of Safety, awaiting assessment commits an offence should they remain, await and complete the assessment or go to custody? T… --- ## [Incomplete renewal papers](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/incomplete-renewal-papers/1949)
**Author:** [@anonymous26](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous26)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [17 November 2023 13:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/incomplete-renewal-papers/1949 "2023-11-17T13:26:37Z")
Hi, I have come across renewal section papers (Form H5) where no deletions have been made in parts 3 or 4 regarding furnishing of the report. The renewal form is from 2022. Does this potentially invalidate the renewal of… --- ## [S3 Renewal & managers hearing](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s3-renewal-managers-hearing/2010)
**Author:** [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [14 November 2023 18:49 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s3-renewal-managers-hearing/2010 "2023-11-14T18:49:09Z")
Hi If a managers hearing isn’t completed with a renewal period, does it make the section invalid, if it renewed again Thanks --- ## [Emergency section 17 leave on section 5(4)/5(2) holding powers](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/emergency-section-17-leave-on-section-5-4-5-2-holding-powers/2008)
**Author:** [@Taylor](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Taylor)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [14 November 2023 16:10 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/emergency-section-17-leave-on-section-5-4-5-2-holding-powers/2008 "2023-11-14T16:10:53Z")
Hello, I have come across a case were a patient requested to leave a mental health hospital as a informal patient and was placed on a section 5, 4. He then self harmed to an extent that he need medical reviwe in the loc… --- ## [CTO - time frame between AMHP signing Part 2 and RC signing Part 3](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-time-frame-between-amhp-signing-part-2-and-rc-signing-part-3/2002)
**Author:** [@khoben88](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/khoben88)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [13 November 2023 11:52 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-time-frame-between-amhp-signing-part-2-and-rc-signing-part-3/2002 "2023-11-13T11:52:54Z")
I’ve got a patient who is being placed on CTO. The RC has completed the CTO1 part 1, the AMHP has completed their part and we have since discovered there is an issue with the funding and we are waiting for it to be appro… --- ## [Concurrent 37/41](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/concurrent-37-41/1987)
**Author:** [@Saralou50](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Saralou50)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [11 November 2023 22:15 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/concurrent-37-41/1987 "2023-11-11T22:15:46Z")
We have a patient subject to two S37/41. The first one was unfit to please - the second one convicted. They are due in court tomorrow for the first unfit to please case. What happens with the second 37/41 - does this … [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=20) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=22)