# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=20 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 21 --- ## [Hospital Manager's renewal meeting after section changed](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/hospital-managers-renewal-meeting-after-section-changed/374)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 11\ **Last updated:** [20 February 2024 12:01 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/hospital-managers-renewal-meeting-after-section-changed/374 "2024-02-20T12:01:38Z")
We recently attended a renewal meeting in respect of a s37(n) who had been discharged onto a CTO by the time of the hearing. Despite our objections the Hospital Managers insisted on considering the statutory criteria rel… --- ## [Old MHAC MHA guides - have they been updated?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/old-mhac-mha-guides-have-they-been-updated/2252)
**Author:** [@HelenR](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/HelenR)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [20 February 2024 09:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/old-mhac-mha-guides-have-they-been-updated/2252 "2024-02-20T09:26:23Z")
Dear wise ones, The MHAC (predecessor to the CQC for the youngsters out there) used to have a series of guides relating to areas of the MHA. They were really useful and I’d like to find out if the guidance on consent t… --- ## [Enforced administration of medication after s2 recommendations and application](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/enforced-administration-of-medication-after-s2-recommendations-and-application/2248)
**Author:** [@Lavinia](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Lavinia)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [12 February 2024 21:02 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/enforced-administration-of-medication-after-s2-recommendations-and-application/2248 "2024-02-12T21:02:35Z")
Patient is in hospital ED Department Recommendations in place for a Section 2 MHA Waiting for a psychiatric bed to be identified First time with Mental Health problems Anti Psychotic Medication prescribed Not review… --- ## [Connection between memory/frailty and litigation capacity](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/connection-between-memory-frailty-and-litigation-capacity/2232)
**Author:** [@anonymous31](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous31)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [11 February 2024 17:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/connection-between-memory-frailty-and-litigation-capacity/2232 "2024-02-11T17:26:58Z")
If someone cannot give evidence, supposedly because they cannot remember anything and/or are too frail do they lack capacity to litigate ? --- ## [No hospital name on AMHP application for s.2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/no-hospital-name-on-amhp-application-for-s-2/2241)
**Author:** [@anonymous32](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous32)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [10 February 2024 11:35 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/no-hospital-name-on-amhp-application-for-s-2/2241 "2024-02-10T11:35:51Z")
Hi Having a bit of a dilemma. So AMHP has added the correct name of the Trust, name of the admitting ward and full postal address of the hospital of where the patient was received but omitted the name of the hospital on… --- ## [Imprisonment and s117 after Worcestershire decision](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/imprisonment-and-s117-after-worcestershire-decision/2006)
**Author:** [@fsswdoc](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/fsswdoc)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [5 February 2024 17:29 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/imprisonment-and-s117-after-worcestershire-decision/2006 "2024-02-05T17:29:34Z")
But I have a few questions regarding 117 in relation to 37, 47 and 48. The ruling mentions eligibility ends on imprisonment. This was not something people considered the case before this and leads to a very confusing si… --- ## [Does a GP need to obtain a patient's 'informed consent' before a referral to the CMHT?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-a-gp-need-to-obtain-a-patients-informed-consent-before-a-referral-to-the-cmht/2207)
**Author:** [@Herystote](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Herystote)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [3 February 2024 14:11 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-a-gp-need-to-obtain-a-patients-informed-consent-before-a-referral-to-the-cmht/2207 "2024-02-03T14:11:52Z")
Does a GP need to obtain a patient’s ‘informed consent’ before referring them to the community mental health team for an assessment? Not under the mental health act 1983. This assessment is to explore and investigate t… --- ## [How does an GP assess capacity of a patient?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/how-does-an-gp-assess-capacity-of-a-patient/2186)
**Author:** [@Herystote](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Herystote)\ **Replies:** 12\ **Last updated:** [3 February 2024 14:23 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/how-does-an-gp-assess-capacity-of-a-patient/2186 "2024-02-03T14:23:50Z")
How does a general practitioner assess capacity of their patient during an appointment? Do they ask them questions about who they are and where they are? Test their memory? Ask them questions about their personality e.… --- ## [Rule 11 appointment](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rule-11-appointment/2171)
**Author:** [@Lawyermentalhealth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Lawyermentalhealth)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [31 January 2024 23:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rule-11-appointment/2171 "2024-01-31T23:34:52Z")
Good morning friends, We have been appointed to represent a client under rule 11 (a) however the client had refused to engage with us. Should we ask to be appointed under Rule 11 (b) if the patient has been found to lac… --- ## [Section 117 and 'Who Pays?' (latest statutory guidance on discharge)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-and-who-pays-latest-statutory-guidance-on-discharge/2198)
**Author:** [@SteveC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/SteveC)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [31 January 2024 16:32 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-and-who-pays-latest-statutory-guidance-on-discharge/2198 "2024-01-31T16:32:32Z")
The Statutory Guidance on discharge from mental health inpatient settings (published on 26 January) includes in Principle 8 (on funding mechanisms) a link to the latest ‘Who Pays?’ update on the government website. That… --- ## [Section 37/41 and prison](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-37-41-and-prison/2205)
**Author:** [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [31 January 2024 16:14 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-37-41-and-prison/2205 "2024-01-31T16:14:45Z")
Can a person be recalled to prison from a hospital setting under a S37/41 many thanks --- ## [General practitioner powers to get their patient assessed and sectioned?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/general-practitioner-powers-to-get-their-patient-assessed-and-sectioned/2180)
**Author:** [@Herystote](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Herystote)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [26 January 2024 19:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/general-practitioner-powers-to-get-their-patient-assessed-and-sectioned/2180 "2024-01-26T19:26:02Z")
If you are a GP and you have concerns over a patient’s mental health. What is the appropriate approach to raise this with the local authorities e.g. mental health teams about getting the patient assessed and possibly se… --- ## [What warrants the detention of the patient in a hospital for assessment?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/what-warrants-the-detention-of-the-patient-in-a-hospital-for-assessment/2185)
**Author:** [@Herystote](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Herystote)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [27 January 2024 13:12 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/what-warrants-the-detention-of-the-patient-in-a-hospital-for-assessment/2185 "2024-01-27T13:12:40Z")
What warrants the detention of the patient in a hospital for assessment? The symptoms of a mental disorder have to be significant to be seen in order to get to that stage? --- ## [Section 2 -- general practice notebook](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-2-general-practice-notebook/1419)
**Author:** [@Andrew](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Andrew)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [7 January 2023 19:27 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-2-general-practice-notebook/1419 "2023-01-07T19:27:24Z")
Stimulated by another topic I searched to understand what a joint medical recommendation was and came upon this in the GP notebook relating to section 2 The medical recommendations must agree that the detention is in t… --- ## [Coercive tactics and ethics](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/coercive-tactics-and-ethics/2117)
**Author:** [@Paul1](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Paul1)\ **Replies:** 14\ **Last updated:** [26 January 2024 17:29 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/coercive-tactics-and-ethics/2117 "2024-01-26T17:29:14Z")
I have a bit of an ethical dilemma. Imagine, if you would, a female patient with severe and enduring mental health problems. The main issue is her thought disorder. She also has physical health problems that require regu… --- ## [Obtaining recording of tribunal hearing?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/obtaining-recording-of-tribunal-hearing/2168)
**Author:** [@Herystote](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Herystote)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [26 January 2024 12:43 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/obtaining-recording-of-tribunal-hearing/2168 "2024-01-26T12:43:09Z")
Is there a way to obtain the recording of a tribunal hearing that took place over the web e.g. similar to facetime etc? I had a look on the government website - they have an application for an audio transcription. But, … --- ## [Conveyance & absconding](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/conveyance-absconding/2165)
**Author:** [@Ngema](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Ngema)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [26 January 2024 09:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/conveyance-absconding/2165 "2024-01-26T09:03:45Z")
Good evening my dear colleagues. Statutory assessment for P under MHA, 2 meds recs completed for s2 & AMHP makes an application. Whilst waiting to convey him to hospital, P absconds therefore doesn’t get to be admitt… --- ## [Nearest relative identification query](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-identification-query/2173)
**Author:** [@anonymous28](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous28)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [25 January 2024 15:41 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-identification-query/2173 "2024-01-25T15:41:02Z")
Hi Patient under s3 - AMHP identified and consulted maternal aunt as NR as they had reason to believe mother (only other living relative) was living in South Africa at the time the application was made. Mother came back… --- ## [S117 for student and Ordinary Residence](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-for-student-and-ordinary-residence/2163)
**Author:** [@NewSocialWorker1](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/NewSocialWorker1)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [24 January 2024 07:10 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-for-student-and-ordinary-residence/2163 "2024-01-24T07:10:53Z")
Hi all, I would be very grateful for your comments/advise on this. P was living in county A, then moved to county B where he went to University. He later became unwell, left University to stay with a family in county B… --- ## [Effect of death on NR delegation](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/effect-of-death-on-nr-delegation/2162)
**Author:** [@Sophie\_Holloway](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Sophie_Holloway)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [24 January 2024 07:10 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/effect-of-death-on-nr-delegation/2162 "2024-01-24T07:10:30Z")
Hi, Can anyone tell me if a NR delegates their power to another, what happens if the original NR dies. Does the delegated NR still hold the NR title or does it then pass to the ‘next in line’? Thanks --- ## [NR displaced and then passes away](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-displaced-and-then-passes-away/2146)
**Author:** [@SPurkis](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/SPurkis)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [18 January 2024 17:21 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-displaced-and-then-passes-away/2146 "2024-01-18T17:21:51Z")
Hello, I have a case where the patient’s NR was his father. His father was displaced as NR in 2019 following NR displacement proceedings in the County Court. The Local Authority were appointed as NR. His dad passed awa… --- ## [No name of AMHP- Invalid Section?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/no-name-of-amhp-invalid-section/2156)
**Author:** [@Beatrice](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Beatrice)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [22 January 2024 11:52 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/no-name-of-amhp-invalid-section/2156 "2024-01-22T11:52:50Z")
I have just received some paperwork and notice that the AMHP did not put their name on the application. I read that Section 15 applies if Doctors or AMHP does not give full name or address(initials are not accepted). I… --- ## [Reasons for displacement of NR after s3 objection](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/reasons-for-displacement-of-nr-after-s3-objection/2142)
**Author:** [@Lawyermentalhealth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Lawyermentalhealth)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [17 January 2024 21:15 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/reasons-for-displacement-of-nr-after-s3-objection/2142 "2024-01-17T21:15:28Z")
Good day all, I understand that a NR can object to a s3 and the NR can be displaced if the AMHP is of the view that they are being unreasonable by disagreeing. Can anyone please explain if there are any particular factor… --- ## [Nearly ten years since the Cheshire West case](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearly-ten-years-since-the-cheshire-west-case/2138)
**Author:** [@Nickwoo](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Nickwoo)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [15 January 2024 09:29 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearly-ten-years-since-the-cheshire-west-case/2138 "2024-01-15T09:29:33Z")
March 2014. The safeguards (DoLS) have the appearance of bewildering complexity, much greater than that in the comparable provisions for detaining mental patients in hospital under the Mental Health Act Such check… --- ## [Nearest relative's power to object](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relatives-power-to-object/2137)
**Author:** [@Wendy3](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Wendy3)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [13 January 2024 16:40 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relatives-power-to-object/2137 "2024-01-13T16:40:17Z")
Why does the nearest relative have the choice of objecting to a sectioning of a close relative? The mental health will only bar the nearest relative. In my opinion i cant see the reasoning of objecting as this has caused… --- ## [Nearest Relative withdrawal of order to discharge](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-withdrawal-of-order-to-discharge/2030)
**Author:** [@Cathd](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Cathd)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [11 January 2024 17:35 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-withdrawal-of-order-to-discharge/2030 "2024-01-11T17:35:49Z")
If a nearest relative gives notice of their intention to discharge their relative and the RC completes the barring certificate can the NR then withdraw their notice. Thanks --- ## [H5 incomplete s3 renewal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/h5-incomplete-s3-renewal/2130)
**Author:** [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [9 January 2024 11:51 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/h5-incomplete-s3-renewal/2130 "2024-01-09T11:51:51Z")
I am currently checking papers for a transfer to us, A H5 dated 2021, has not got Part 4 completed at all, Does this invalidate the section. many thanks in advance --- ## [Hospital Managers - JDs, T&Cs etc](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/hospital-managers-jds-t-cs-etc/2126)
**Author:** [@HelenR](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/HelenR)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [8 January 2024 10:39 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/hospital-managers-jds-t-cs-etc/2126 "2024-01-08T10:39:37Z")
Hi all, I’m reviewing our Hospital Managers job descriptions, their T&Cs, etc and was looking for views (particularly from fellow NHS providers). How much do you pay your AHMs per hearing (we’re currently at £64) How … --- ## [Procedure for granting section 17 leave](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/procedure-for-granting-section-17-leave/2111)
**Author:** [@Taylor](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Taylor)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [5 January 2024 22:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/procedure-for-granting-section-17-leave/2111 "2024-01-05T22:25:03Z")
Can a doctor trained and registered to act as an RC who is not the patients RC and are not in writing as an acting RC for them still grant the patient leave? If not what happens with duty consultants - I know when I call… --- ## [Refusal of s17 leave for court appearance](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/refusal-of-s17-leave-for-court-appearance/2113)
**Author:** [@Taylor](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Taylor)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [5 January 2024 09:28 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/refusal-of-s17-leave-for-court-appearance/2113 "2024-01-05T09:28:28Z")
Can RC refuses leave for a court appearance? If they cant then - where is this said in law, case law or tertiary legislation /guidance? If they can the would the patient not be committing an offence of failing to atten… [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=19) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=21)