# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=14 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 15 --- ## [Section 117/restricted FTT -- no LA will take responsibility](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-restricted-ftt-no-la-will-take-responsibility/3136)
**Author:** [@Lawyermentalhealth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Lawyermentalhealth)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [23 January 2025 18:06 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-restricted-ftt-no-la-will-take-responsibility/3136 "2025-01-23T18:06:25Z")
I have a s37/41 client due a FTT imminently. His team believe he is ready for a conditional discharge however there are s117 issues - no one wishes to take responsibility in providing aftercare. He is placed in an out of… --- ## [Representation at Managers Hearings for patients who lack capacity](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/representation-at-managers-hearings-for-patients-who-lack-capacity/3129)
**Author:** [@angec](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/angec)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [22 January 2025 12:49 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/representation-at-managers-hearings-for-patients-who-lack-capacity/3129 "2025-01-22T12:49:01Z")
I’ve been asked to represent a patient at his upcoming s37 Managers renewal hearing by the mental health act administrator at the hospital. The client lacks capacity to provide instructions and does not want to meet wit… --- ## [AMHP and doctor decide not to go ahead with section 3 without consulting NR](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/amhp-and-doctor-decide-not-to-go-ahead-with-section-3-without-consulting-nr/3123)
**Author:** [@jacksj65](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/jacksj65)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [21 January 2025 14:10 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/amhp-and-doctor-decide-not-to-go-ahead-with-section-3-without-consulting-nr/3123 "2025-01-21T14:10:39Z")
Our son is psychotic. On Friday his EIT person told us he needed at least weeks more in detention. He was clearly psychotic over the weekend. Our son is 20 years old. I am his NR. We believed he had been made subject to… --- ## [Searching post MHA assessment](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/searching-post-mha-assessment/3111)
**Author:** [@MentalHealthCop](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MentalHealthCop)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [21 January 2025 11:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/searching-post-mha-assessment/3111 "2025-01-21T11:03:32Z")
A former officer who now works in NHS security posed me a question which I haven’t had to think about before because it’s not a “police” question - What power exists to search someone, thought to be in possession of som… --- ## [Arrest of sectioned patient](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/arrest-of-sectioned-patient/2115)
**Author:** [@Taylor](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Taylor)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [20 January 2025 11:07 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/arrest-of-sectioned-patient/2115 "2025-01-20T11:07:18Z")
Can a patient under section 2 or 3 be arrested. I am aware a patient can be criminally prosecuted for a offence committed on section if they had criminal capacity at time of offence. But for example if the police were … --- ## [Social services care contracts](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/social-services-care-contracts/3108)
**Author:** [@Gucci](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Gucci)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [16 January 2025 13:02 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/social-services-care-contracts/3108 "2025-01-16T13:02:33Z")
Can social care services agree a contract for at home care between just social care services and the care provider? Son never signed contract and now social care council are demanding full charges when they know only 1/… --- ## [Should CTO12 signatory have done the assessment?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/should-cto12-signatory-have-done-the-assessment/3013)
**Author:** [@anonymous34](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous34)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [10 January 2025 00:04 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/should-cto12-signatory-have-done-the-assessment/3013 "2025-01-10T00:04:05Z")
There is another thing that is bothering me. ST6 doctors for example doing the legwork/assessments for treatment certificates so that the RC can then complete/certify consent on a CTO12 - and as the treatment forms qui… --- ## [Inpatient ward without RC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/inpatient-ward-without-rc/3075)
**Author:** [@RS0](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/RS0)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [10 January 2025 00:11 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/inpatient-ward-without-rc/3075 "2025-01-10T00:11:28Z")
Dear all, I’m wondering who will assume responsibility as RC for an inpatient ward within a hospital, when there is no RC? Does it automatically fall onto the Medical Director by default? Can a Hospital Manager allocate… --- ## [Frequency of Tribunal Hearings Sec 37/41 patient](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/frequency-of-tribunal-hearings-sec-37-41-patient/3097)
**Author:** [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [9 January 2025 22:47 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/frequency-of-tribunal-hearings-sec-37-41-patient/3097 "2025-01-09T22:47:45Z")
I’ve just heard of a case where a man who has been convicted of manslaughter by reason of diminished responsibility and sentenced to a Sec 37/41 hospital order with restrictions had a Tribunal hearing in April 2024, and … --- ## [CTO revocation and subsequent tribunal references](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-revocation-and-subsequent-tribunal-references/3088)
**Author:** [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [9 January 2025 16:39 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-revocation-and-subsequent-tribunal-references/3088 "2025-01-09T16:39:48Z")
Hi If a patient CTO is revoke he goes back on his S3 and has an automatic tribunal for the revoke. His S3 is then renewed, does the hospital have to do another automatic tribunal or does the first one count as within t… --- ## [Remote assessment for CTO treatment forms](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/remote-assessment-for-cto-treatment-forms/2996)
**Author:** [@anonymous34](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous34)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [9 January 2025 09:55 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/remote-assessment-for-cto-treatment-forms/2996 "2025-01-09T09:55:52Z")
Hi Just wondering what your views are on RCs undertaking, dialogue/discussion over the phone to help confirm whether a patient is consenting to their proposed treatment for purpose of a CTO12 or SOAD certificate for CTO… --- ## [Section 2 patient transfer into Guardianship using form G6](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-2-patient-transfer-into-guardianship-using-form-g6/3082)
**Author:** [@anonymous34](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous34)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [8 January 2025 22:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-2-patient-transfer-into-guardianship-using-form-g6/3082 "2025-01-08T22:03:27Z")
Hi Patient currently in hospital subject to s2 of the MHA. Nearest relative objected to the s3 going ahead and LA submitted an application to displace the patient. S2 extended by virtue of s29(4). Displacement proceedin… --- ## [Can s48/49 and s3 run concurrently?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-s48-49-and-s3-run-concurrently/3067)
**Author:** [@Karin.slack](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karin.slack)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [7 January 2025 10:37 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-s48-49-and-s3-run-concurrently/3067 "2025-01-07T10:37:47Z")
P‘s S48 is due to end soon, and the RC has completed a S3 recommendation and requested a MHA asst while the S48 is still running. Would it be lawful to have S48 and S3 run concurrently? --- ## [Law & Practice under the Lunacy Acts](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/law-practice-under-the-lunacy-acts/2912)
**Author:** [@ColinMcKie](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ColinMcKie)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [6 January 2025 15:56 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/law-practice-under-the-lunacy-acts/2912 "2025-01-06T15:56:25Z")
Dear All, I am researching the law and practice under the (English or Irish) Lunacy Acts etc. prior to the coming into force of the Mental Health Act 1959. It would appear that the leading texts included: (1) Theobald … --- ## [S37/41 and S3 running concurrently](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s37-41-and-s3-running-concurrently/2445)
**Author:** [@anonymous37](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous37)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [5 January 2025 20:11 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s37-41-and-s3-running-concurrently/2445 "2025-01-05T20:11:20Z")
Scenario is as follows: 1 - P was placed on S37/41. Hospital A became aware that P’s case could be remitted, so they placed P on S3. HMs then lifted the S3 on the grounds that P could still be treated under S37/41 as it… --- ## [NR rights after patient released to care](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-rights-after-patient-released-to-care/3056)
**Author:** [@Wol231](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Wol231)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [22 December 2024 17:46 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-rights-after-patient-released-to-care/3056 "2024-12-22T17:46:55Z")
Hi, I am new to the forum so I apologise if this has been covered. My daughter has psychosis , first episode 2019 when she was living with me. Only help given to her is meds which she has on and off refused which led to… --- ## [Coronavirus Practice Direction](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/coronavirus-practice-direction/788)
**Author:** [@jonesrm](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/jonesrm)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [19 December 2024 16:59 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/coronavirus-practice-direction/788 "2024-12-19T16:59:53Z")
I am trying to identify which Coronavirus PDs are still in force. In particular, “Amended General Pilot Practice Direction: Contingency Arrangements in the First-Tier Tribunal and the Upper Tribunal” was extended to Sept… --- ## [SOAD assessments by telephone](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/soad-assessments-by-telephone/3044)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [17 December 2024 23:47 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/soad-assessments-by-telephone/3044 "2024-12-17T23:47:25Z")
I know SOADs are allowed to assess remotely but can they assess by telephone? Is there anything to prevent them doing this? --- ## [NR discharge letter given to ward manager](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-discharge-letter-given-to-ward-manager/3033)
**Author:** [@NickyGatland](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/NickyGatland)\ **Replies:** 11\ **Last updated:** [16 December 2024 23:48 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-discharge-letter-given-to-ward-manager/3033 "2024-12-16T23:48:55Z")
Hi All, Hoping for some clarification and advice. I represent a client who is subject to S3. NR provided a typed letter to the ward manager on Friday evening at about 4pm and told the Ward Manager it was a letter exer… --- ## [S17 leave for consumption of tobacco?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s17-leave-for-consumption-of-tobacco/3041)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [11 December 2024 10:37 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s17-leave-for-consumption-of-tobacco/3041 "2024-12-11T10:37:37Z")
There has been a big debate in the background that I have seen for the last 10 years. Patients say it’s their ‘Human Right to smoke’. I say no “it’s not your Human Right to smoke.” Many mental health staff believe that … --- ## [New T2 required on RC's return from leave?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/new-t2-required-on-rcs-return-from-leave/2734)
**Author:** [@Jane](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jane)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [11 December 2024 09:58 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/new-t2-required-on-rcs-return-from-leave/2734 "2024-12-11T09:58:21Z")
We have a patient whose 3-month rule expired during a period their RC being on leave. The covering RC completed the T2. My question is Should a new T2 be completed by the patient’s RC following their leave? --- ## [Execution of s135(1) warrant](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/execution-of-s135-1-warrant/3038)
**Author:** [@anonymous34](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous34)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [10 December 2024 15:07 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/execution-of-s135-1-warrant/3038 "2024-12-10T15:07:35Z")
Hi Quick question. If the endorsement page of s135(1) warrant is not completed by the police constable - but it was executed by the police (with doctor/AMHP in attendance) and the patient was removed to a HBPoS for asse… --- ## [S37/41 Discharge to victim's address](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s37-41-discharge-to-victims-address/2544)
**Author:** [@Sophie\_Holloway](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Sophie_Holloway)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [9 December 2024 09:58 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s37-41-discharge-to-victims-address/2544 "2024-12-09T09:58:53Z")
I have a client detained under s37/41 and the victim of the offence is his mother. Mother would like to have him reside back home but team are obviously concerned. I should say that patient is ready for discharge. Has… --- ## [CQC 'Monitoring the Mental Health Act' report - where is it?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cqc-monitoring-the-mental-health-act-report-where-is-it/2097)
**Author:** [@HelenR](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/HelenR)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [6 December 2024 23:56 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cqc-monitoring-the-mental-health-act-report-where-is-it/2097 "2024-12-06T23:56:56Z")
Hi all, does anyone know when the CQC’s annual MHA report is due out? Thanks! --- ## [Restricted Cases and the Parole Board](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/restricted-cases-and-the-parole-board/2285)
**Author:** [@Hannah\_Grennan\_2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Hannah_Grennan_2)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [6 December 2024 23:55 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/restricted-cases-and-the-parole-board/2285 "2024-12-06T23:55:04Z")
We have a client who is an IPP detained in hospital under s47/49 MHA. We represented the client before the Mental Health Tribunal in 2022 in which the panel made a recommendation under s74(1)(b) that he should continue … --- ## [Tribunal making recommendations on care/treatment/ onward discharge destination](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-making-recommendations-on-care-treatment-onward-discharge-destination/2580)
**Author:** [@AC23](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AC23)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [6 December 2024 23:26 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-making-recommendations-on-care-treatment-onward-discharge-destination/2580 "2024-12-06T23:26:48Z")
I have a patient where the tribunal upheld the section but made some ‘recommendations’ on their onward discharge destination. I know that these are only recommendations and obviously will give them due consideration but … --- ## [S2 MHA Leaflet in Slovakian](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s2-mha-leaflet-in-slovakian/2605)
**Author:** [@helenlink](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/helenlink)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [6 December 2024 23:18 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s2-mha-leaflet-in-slovakian/2605 "2024-12-06T23:18:58Z")
Dear Colleagues We are attempting to locate a S2 information leaflet in Slovakian – can anyone assist please? Kind regards Helen Link --- ## [Tribunal decisions - full findings and reasons (FFRs)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-decisions-full-findings-and-reasons-ffrs/619)
**Author:** [@Barry](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Barry)\ **Replies:** 14\ **Last updated:** [4 December 2024 22:31 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-decisions-full-findings-and-reasons-ffrs/619 "2024-12-04T22:31:53Z")
Are redacted FFR decisions of mental health tribunals available for inspection by the public, preferably online? If available online, where can they be found? If available offline, to whom can an application be made to i… --- ## [CTO recall, renewal, AWOL status](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-recall-renewal-awol-status/3009)
**Author:** [@anonymous34](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous34)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [3 December 2024 19:51 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-recall-renewal-awol-status/3009 "2024-12-03T19:51:48Z")
Hi Patient subject to CTO which would have expired on the 06/07/2024. Recall notice completed for purpose of examining/renewing the CTO came into legal effect on the 21/06/2024 naming Hospital A. Extended CTO due to A… --- ## [NR request to discharge s2, and consequences of barring order](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-request-to-discharge-s2-and-consequences-of-barring-order/2999)
**Author:** [@Gemma1819](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Gemma1819)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [30 November 2024 11:27 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-request-to-discharge-s2-and-consequences-of-barring-order/2999 "2024-11-30T11:27:34Z")
Thank you both for the information i appreciate you taking the time to reply.That definitely doesn’t sound a option then i just feel very strongly its not in my sons best interests being admitted. Me applying to discharg… [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=13) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=15)