# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=13 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 14 --- ## [NR wants to delegate her role but there is no-one to delegate it to](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-wants-to-delegate-her-role-but-there-is-no-one-to-delegate-it-to/3333)
**Author:** [@Joanna](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joanna)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [25 February 2025 09:13 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nr-wants-to-delegate-her-role-but-there-is-no-one-to-delegate-it-to/3333 "2025-02-25T09:13:35Z")
NR wants to delegate her role but there is no-one to delegate it to (no family and friends). Do we as the AMHP service apply to the county court to become NR? The patients has capacity regarding this decision and cold … --- ## [Paper hearing of s3 reference after patient put on CTO](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/paper-hearing-of-s3-reference-after-patient-put-on-cto/2565)
**Author:** [@Porolli](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Porolli)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [24 February 2025 20:11 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/paper-hearing-of-s3-reference-after-patient-put-on-cto/2565 "2025-02-24T20:11:50Z")
Where a client has been referred for a tribunal due to six months elapsing on section 3, but is put onto a CTO before the hearing date occurs, is it possible for the patient to request a paper hearing? I am of course aw… --- ## [Precedent letters of instruction for independent experts](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/precedent-letters-of-instruction-for-independent-experts/3326)
**Author:** [@Lmcadams13954](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Lmcadams13954)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [24 February 2025 10:27 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/precedent-letters-of-instruction-for-independent-experts/3326 "2025-02-24T10:27:03Z")
Hi, I was just wondering if there are any links anywhere to suggested letters of instruction to an independent psychiatrist? Thank you --- ## [Appropriate treatment for EUPD](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/appropriate-treatment-for-eupd/3317)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [24 February 2025 09:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/appropriate-treatment-for-eupd/3317 "2025-02-24T09:03:05Z")
I can tell everyone that over the last 5 years across the length and breadth of the UK (not Scotland but not excluding Northern Ireland) the following is my honest experience: There is a rapid rise in EUPD diagnoses co… --- ## [Power of attorney and tribunal applications](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/power-of-attorney-and-tribunal-applications/3306)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [24 February 2025 07:22 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/power-of-attorney-and-tribunal-applications/3306 "2025-02-24T07:22:40Z")
Can someone help me out with the case law on this? A hospital are refusing to provide me with details of the section because there is a PoA. --- ## [Jail or deportation for Valdo Calocane](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/jail-or-deportation-for-valdo-calocane/3323)
**Author:** [@Herystote](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Herystote)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [23 February 2025 22:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/jail-or-deportation-for-valdo-calocane/3323 "2025-02-23T22:03:18Z")
For me I think that says it all. Someone like VC needed to be locked up in jail or deported back into their own country rather than be given special privileges for 9 days waiting for a PICU bed. --- ## [Section 5(2) doctor's holding powers and seclusion](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-5-2-doctors-holding-powers-and-seclusion/3282)
**Author:** [@metoo](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/metoo)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [22 February 2025 13:19 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-5-2-doctors-holding-powers-and-seclusion/3282 "2025-02-22T13:19:17Z")
If a patient is subject to s.5(2) can they be placed in seclusion? if so where is the authority for that please? --- ## [Reinstatement after r11(7)(b) appointment and withdrawal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/reinstatement-after-r11-7-b-appointment-and-withdrawal/3309)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [22 February 2025 11:08 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/reinstatement-after-r11-7-b-appointment-and-withdrawal/3309 "2025-02-22T11:08:42Z")
If you are appointed under R11 7 b and withdraw the patient’s application do you think you can reinstate it? As it is the same matter I would assume you can but wondering what others think. --- ## [Which patients can be granted s17 leave?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/which-patients-can-be-granted-s17-leave/3300)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [22 February 2025 01:31 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/which-patients-can-be-granted-s17-leave/3300 "2025-02-22T01:31:31Z")
Yuh know - over the years I have simply accepted what I have been told. Not good. I looked deeply into the MHA 1983(Amended 2007), MHACOP, MHA Reference Guide to find out if S17(3) leave was prohibited for: S4 S5(4) S… --- ## [Tribunal appeals surviving change of section](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-appeals-surviving-change-of-section/3299)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [20 February 2025 17:38 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-appeals-surviving-change-of-section/3299 "2025-02-20T17:38:55Z")
There is a general rule which has been established by case law but I can’t remember it and am rather pushed for time. I think that an application made when client is unrestricted survives if they are given a restriction… --- ## [Requesting tribunal transcript for potential appeal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/requesting-tribunal-transcript-for-potential-appeal/3273)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 10\ **Last updated:** [20 February 2025 10:24 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/requesting-tribunal-transcript-for-potential-appeal/3273 "2025-02-20T10:24:19Z")
I have just read the practice direction to see whether it would be possible to use the transcript for the purposes of an appeal and I note that this is not mentioned. Does anyone know how long it is taking to get them? … --- ## [Failure of NHS England to publish full reports following patient homicides](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/failure-of-nhs-england-to-publish-full-reports-following-patient-homicides/3237)
**Author:** [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Replies:** 14\ **Last updated:** [19 February 2025 20:44 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/failure-of-nhs-england-to-publish-full-reports-following-patient-homicides/3237 "2025-02-19T20:44:37Z")
The Times today picks up on the failure of NHS England to publish full reports following patient homicides. --- ## [Patient locks self in a room to prevent conveyance - how to proceed?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/patient-locks-self-in-a-room-to-prevent-conveyance-how-to-proceed/3295)
**Author:** [@sjlbruce](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/sjlbruce)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [19 February 2025 14:15 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/patient-locks-self-in-a-room-to-prevent-conveyance-how-to-proceed/3295 "2025-02-19T14:15:14Z")
Hi - just a hypothetical scenario. MHAA takes place at home. 2 med recs completed and the AMHP makes their application. The AMHP has never left the home so gaining entry to the property is not a barrier. The patient, le… --- ## [AWOL or Missing (Liable to be detained)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/awol-or-missing-liable-to-be-detained/3270)
**Author:** [@MHLOThomas](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MHLOThomas)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [17 February 2025 12:41 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/awol-or-missing-liable-to-be-detained/3270 "2025-02-17T12:41:55Z")
The scenario is this - patient assessed at home by AMHP and ambulance are there ready to convey. The person does not want to go to hospital and runs off. An application has already been made to a named bed and as such th… --- ## [Does a S47/49 work in the same way as a S3 in terms of 117 aftercare following the Worcestershire ruling?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-a-s47-49-work-in-the-same-way-as-a-s3-in-terms-of-117-aftercare-following-the-worcestershire-ruling/3256)
**Author:** [@STEPC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/STEPC)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [12 February 2025 16:53 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-a-s47-49-work-in-the-same-way-as-a-s3-in-terms-of-117-aftercare-following-the-worcestershire-ruling/3256 "2025-02-12T16:53:01Z")
Hi all. Just wondering - Does a S47/49 work in the same way as a S3 in terms of 117 aftercare following the Worcestershire ruling? As in would the most recent S47/49 (and a change of Ordinary residence) mean that the S1… --- ## [How do the courts decide on diminished responsibility?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/how-do-the-courts-decide-on-diminished-responsibility/3266)
**Author:** [@Herystote](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Herystote)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [12 February 2025 19:29 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/how-do-the-courts-decide-on-diminished-responsibility/3266 "2025-02-12T19:29:48Z")
Continuing the discussion from Case (Appeal against murder conviction). R v Ansell \[2024\] EWCA Crim 1669: I find this interesting. What type of evaluation process do the courts undergo to formulate a judgement on wheth… --- ## [Concurrent s3 and DOLS](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/concurrent-s3-and-dols/3212)
**Author:** [@hewitth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/hewitth)\ **Replies:** 12\ **Last updated:** [7 February 2025 11:06 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/concurrent-s3-and-dols/3212 "2025-02-07T11:06:45Z")
Hi Please can anyone clarify can a patients be on a S3 and a DOL’s at the same time. I have heard of a CTO & DOL’s but not S3 and a DOL’s. The patient is being treated for his physical condition in a general hospital … --- ## [Article on the Mental Health Bill](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/article-on-the-mental-health-bill/3213)
**Author:** [@medicolegal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/medicolegal)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [6 February 2025 22:33 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/article-on-the-mental-health-bill/3213 "2025-02-06T22:33:46Z")
I am posting this article on the Bill in case it is of interest to anyone: --- ## [The CQC's MHA Reviewers](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/the-cqcs-mha-reviewers/3231)
**Author:** [@mat\_kinton](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/mat_kinton)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [6 February 2025 18:24 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/the-cqcs-mha-reviewers/3231 "2025-02-06T18:24:10Z")
Continuing the discussion from Article on the Mental Health Bill: Thanks for posting Anselm. I’ve no authority to speak officially for CQC, but as a point of fact there are four mental health lawyers amongst roughly 35 … --- ## [New Legal Help form](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/new-legal-help-form/3214)
**Author:** [@SeanWaters](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/SeanWaters)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [6 February 2025 11:48 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/new-legal-help-form/3214 "2025-02-06T11:48:03Z")
There is a new CW1&2 here: Legal Aid Agency, ‘Form CW 1&2 MH’ (v21, February 2025). --- ## [Commencement date of s37 detention following transfer from Scotland](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/commencement-date-of-s37-detention-following-transfer-from-scotland/3204)
**Author:** [@Bloodyromans](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Bloodyromans)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [5 February 2025 12:18 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/commencement-date-of-s37-detention-following-transfer-from-scotland/3204 "2025-02-05T12:18:14Z")
I have a client who back in April 2024 was made subject to the Scottish Section 37. In November 2024 she was transferred to a hospital in England and is now subject to the English Section 37. She wants to appeal For t… --- ## [Removing diagnosis from medical records](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/removing-diagnosis-from-medical-records/3160)
**Author:** [@Herystote](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Herystote)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [4 February 2025 21:23 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/removing-diagnosis-from-medical-records/3160 "2025-02-04T21:23:18Z")
Below was a quote from Simon Foster (Sifo) in reference to patients attempting to amend their diagnosis on record in one of my posts. If Mr Foster is reading this - can you explain this specific part. Are you saying -… --- ## [Payment for staffed accommodation under s117](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/payment-for-staffed-accommodation-under-s117/3199)
**Author:** [@Andy\_Howarth\_2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Andy_Howarth_2)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [4 February 2025 21:02 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/payment-for-staffed-accommodation-under-s117/3199 "2025-02-04T21:02:50Z")
I’m advising a client who is in supported accommodation with staff on site. My understanding was that the supported accommodation was provided under s117. The rent has for years been paid by Housing Benefit, as is quite… --- ## [Wondering why RC does not want to discharge patient from s2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/wondering-why-rc-does-not-want-to-discharge-patient-from-s2/3197)
**Author:** [@Khairin](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Khairin)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [4 February 2025 18:37 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/wondering-why-rc-does-not-want-to-discharge-patient-from-s2/3197 "2025-02-04T18:37:58Z")
Hi, I’m hoping some light could be shed onto this topic! I know an rc who not discharging a patient due to him posing a danger to others when he was admitted but since then has completely resided in symptoms and shows … --- ## [s17 leave where the patient does not want to go](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s17-leave-where-the-patient-does-not-want-to-go/3177)
**Author:** [@Ella1](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Ella1)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [30 January 2025 06:16 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s17-leave-where-the-patient-does-not-want-to-go/3177 "2025-01-30T06:16:46Z")
Hi all, can someone be sent out on s17 leave against their will, and can it authorise any restraint needed to get them from A to B? Many thanks for any thoughts. --- ## [Paper hearings following references for detained patients](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/paper-hearings-following-references-for-detained-patients/3166)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [28 January 2025 17:06 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/paper-hearings-following-references-for-detained-patients/3166 "2025-01-28T17:06:34Z")
Can anyone tell me if this has come into practice yet? --- ## [Disputing a diagnosis given during the sectioning process?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/disputing-a-diagnosis-given-during-the-sectioning-process/2305)
**Author:** [@Herystote](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Herystote)\ **Replies:** 18\ **Last updated:** [27 January 2025 23:57 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/disputing-a-diagnosis-given-during-the-sectioning-process/2305 "2025-01-27T23:57:41Z")
If a person wants to clear their medical records of a diagnosis written about them when they were sectioned. What is the correct process of disputing this? It appears that at local GP level they can not do anything abou… --- ## [AMHP case study question -- s2 being considered, NR is abusive](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/amhp-case-study-question-s2-being-considered-nr-is-abusive/3087)
**Author:** [@Amira29Ak](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Amira29Ak)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [26 January 2025 19:33 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/amhp-case-study-question-s2-being-considered-nr-is-abusive/3087 "2025-01-26T19:33:35Z")
New trainee AMHP here. I am reviewing a case study where the patient is objecting to go to hospital and the nearest relative is abusive. What case law can be applied here and what barriers could be expected? They will be… --- ## [Legal responsibility of professionals -- capacity and suicide](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/legal-responsibility-of-professionals-capacity-and-suicide/3146)
**Author:** [@Daisy2019](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Daisy2019)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [25 January 2025 09:11 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/legal-responsibility-of-professionals-capacity-and-suicide/3146 "2025-01-25T09:11:53Z")
If a person with long standing mental gealth and repeated suicide attempts, some serious. Is assessed as having capacity but discloses still suicidal with active plan . Is this person allowed to be discharged back home f… --- ## [Stopping antipsychotic medication for autism](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/stopping-antipsychotic-medication-for-autism/3134)
**Author:** [@anon88676405](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anon88676405)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [22 January 2025 22:57 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/stopping-antipsychotic-medication-for-autism/3134 "2025-01-22T22:57:32Z")
If an individual with a primary diagnosis of autism and secondary diagnoses of F29 Unspecified non-organic psychosis and anxiety disorder has been prescribed anti-psychotic medication for several years, then is assigned … [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=14)