# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=12 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 13 --- ## [Impact of service pressures survey](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/impact-of-service-pressures-survey/3472)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [16 March 2025 23:37 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/impact-of-service-pressures-survey/3472 "2025-03-16T23:37:49Z")
The increasing pressures on medical services in the UK have had a profound impact on the psychiatric profession, where demand often outstrips capacity. Mental health services are grappling with unprecedented levels of ne… --- ## [Psychiatry](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/psychiatry/3460)
**Author:** [@anonymous52](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous52)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [16 March 2025 13:36 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/psychiatry/3460 "2025-03-16T13:36:47Z")
Hi Russell, How does your approach differ from regular psychiatry? Now, I don’t generalise all psychiatrists. But based on observation - the idea of psychiatry sounds to me like a pseudoscience held by those not really… --- ## [When is an LGSCO complaint worthwhile?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-is-an-lgsco-complaint-worthwhile/3453)
**Author:** [@anonymous52](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous52)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [14 March 2025 19:11 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/when-is-an-lgsco-complaint-worthwhile/3453 "2025-03-14T19:11:04Z")
Continuing the discussion from Case (Complaint about MHA assessment not upheld). Medway Council (24 010 714) \[2025\] MHLO 6 (LGSCO): A lot of these cases that have been put forward to the Ombudsman appear not to progress… --- ## [Rough sleeping and ordinary residence](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rough-sleeping-and-ordinary-residence/3455)
**Author:** [@martcol](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/martcol)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [13 March 2025 22:29 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rough-sleeping-and-ordinary-residence/3455 "2025-03-13T22:29:57Z")
Preparing for discharge for a person who comes from a different area and wants to return there. It appears that LA is refusing to accept S117 responsibility because at the time of arrest, the individual was “rough sleep… --- ## [Point system for s117 eligibility?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/point-system-for-s117-eligibility/3456)
**Author:** [@wendy2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/wendy2)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [13 March 2025 22:24 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/point-system-for-s117-eligibility/3456 "2025-03-13T22:24:38Z")
Ive had a new one today where a dementia patient was placed on s2, then s3 due to levels of aggression. She is still on 1:1 but the hospital have said that they have done all they can for her and she needs to be transfer… --- ## [Who decides S17 leave? You may be surprised](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/who-decides-s17-leave-you-may-be-surprised/3457)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [13 March 2025 20:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/who-decides-s17-leave-you-may-be-surprised/3457 "2025-03-13T20:03:04Z")
The question “Who decides S17 leave?” may appear to be a silly one because ‘everybody’ knows that it is the RC’s responsibility to decide whether to grant leave (surely with MDT involvement and all that jazz). So what’s … --- ## [ICB commissioning responsibility for detained patients](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/icb-commissioning-responsibility-for-detained-patients/1465)
**Author:** [@Richard\_Rook](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Richard_Rook)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [2 February 2023 09:43 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/icb-commissioning-responsibility-for-detained-patients/1465 "2023-02-02T09:43:14Z")
Does anyone understand the bits of the National Health Service (Integrated Care Boards: Responsibilities) Regulations 2022 which changed the rules for who is responsible for commissioning hospital places an s117 aftercar… --- ## [Section 47/49 lifer with no tariff](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-47-49-lifer-with-no-tariff/2618)
**Author:** [@anonymous46](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous46)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [12 March 2025 12:35 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-47-49-lifer-with-no-tariff/2618 "2025-03-12T12:35:52Z")
I have a client who has been detained in hospital since 1981 under ss47/49 having been convicted of attempted murder and given a life sentence in 1979. There is no minimum tariff noted on the hospital transfer direction… --- ## [Treatment outside of Statute in S136 suites](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/treatment-outside-of-statute-in-s136-suites/3436)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [11 March 2025 23:00 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/treatment-outside-of-statute-in-s136-suites/3436 "2025-03-11T23:00:43Z")
As everybody should know, S136 does not allow for treatment with medications whether consenting or not. \[I own copyright to the image, just in case\] Scenario this week: Male patient in early 30s with only rudiment… --- ## [Section 48/49 patient bailed -- when to treat as informal patient?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-48-49-patient-bailed-when-to-treat-as-informal-patient/3431)
**Author:** [@anonymous34](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous34)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [11 March 2025 13:39 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-48-49-patient-bailed-when-to-treat-as-informal-patient/3431 "2025-03-11T13:39:48Z")
Hi Patient subject to s48/49 had a court hearing in connection with the offences that led to the above order. The judge stated that the patient is no longer on remand and can stay in hospital on a voluntary basis but h… --- ## [Data deletion requests (ASD/C Diagnosis)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/data-deletion-requests-asd-c-diagnosis/3429)
**Author:** [@aditya](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/aditya)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [11 March 2025 09:35 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/data-deletion-requests-asd-c-diagnosis/3429 "2025-03-11T09:35:28Z")
I am trying to understand if a diagnosis provided by Psychiatry UK can be taken off from my records under the DPA 2018. Additionally, since Pschiatry UK shares this data with the NHS, can I request for such deletion thro… --- ## [Police interview of autistic person without appropriate adult](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/police-interview-of-autistic-person-without-appropriate-adult/3375)
**Author:** [@anon88676405](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anon88676405)\ **Replies:** 15\ **Last updated:** [10 March 2025 07:39 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/police-interview-of-autistic-person-without-appropriate-adult/3375 "2025-03-10T07:39:37Z")
If the police are called to someone in a care home displaying challenging behaviour, taken away unaccompanied by staff, locked up in a police cell overnight, interviewed without an appropriate adult. The individual is a… --- ## [Missing examination date in joint medical recommendation](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/missing-examination-date-in-joint-medical-recommendation/3394)
**Author:** [@MariaO](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MariaO)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [9 March 2025 17:06 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/missing-examination-date-in-joint-medical-recommendation/3394 "2025-03-09T17:06:33Z")
Hi All, I need your expert advice. On a joint medical recommendation for Section 2, one of the doctors did not include the date of examination on the form. Does this error make the joint medical recommendation invalid? … --- ## [Cases where patients have appealed their discharge from s117 aftercare](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cases-where-patients-have-appealed-their-discharge-from-s117-aftercare/3174)
**Author:** [@JadieH](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JadieH)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [8 March 2025 23:06 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cases-where-patients-have-appealed-their-discharge-from-s117-aftercare/3174 "2025-03-08T23:06:28Z")
Hello, anyone aware of any cases where patients have appealed or disputed their discharge from S117 aftercare? Thanks :slight\_smile: --- ## [Patient's return to hospital after unsuccessful discharge from s2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/patients-return-to-hospital-after-unsuccessful-discharge-from-s2/3321)
**Author:** [@Daisy2019](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Daisy2019)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [8 March 2025 15:07 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/patients-return-to-hospital-after-unsuccessful-discharge-from-s2/3321 "2025-03-08T15:07:25Z")
Hi i wanted to ask what is the time frame that a failed discharge option can be used for P to go back in hospital back on s2 that P was discharged from. And who can do this admission back in. Can the P do themselves or c… --- ## [Accused of stopping S17 leaves](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/accused-of-stopping-s17-leaves/3413)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [8 March 2025 13:09 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/accused-of-stopping-s17-leaves/3413 "2025-03-08T13:09:28Z")
Not many people up here may understand the situation where me as a locum enters a new job and inherits some 20 previously unknown patients following an absence of regular RC cover in weeks or months before. It’s worse in… --- ## [DWP, Universal Credit and means testing](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dwp-universal-credit-and-means-testing/3381)
**Author:** [@Cruachan69](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Cruachan69)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [8 March 2025 10:18 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dwp-universal-credit-and-means-testing/3381 "2025-03-08T10:18:08Z")
Dear all, I have arrived back in the UK after an accident at sea and was repatriated to the UK after living abroad for the last 12 years. The accident rendered me homeless and destitute, since the vessel was my home. … --- ## [MHA responsibility after Section 3 invalid and OOA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-responsibility-after-section-3-invalid-and-ooa/3409)
**Author:** [@son\_peach](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/son_peach)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [7 March 2025 21:01 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-responsibility-after-section-3-invalid-and-ooa/3409 "2025-03-07T21:01:20Z")
Scenario - patient in secure care transferred from Place A to Place B whilst under Section 3. Place A did the initial MHAA for S2 and S3 and is ordinarily resident there. Whilst in Place B renewal of Section 3 completed… --- ## [Rescinding medical recommendations?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rescinding-medical-recommendations/3388)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [6 March 2025 22:05 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rescinding-medical-recommendations/3388 "2025-03-06T22:05:00Z")
I’ve been asked to rescind medical recommendations. I refused point blank. The scenario: Patient in S136 suite brought in on a S135. The 24 hour limit was breached days ago. Two med recs say P should be admitted to a … --- ## [Deadline for admission after s2 recommendation](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/deadline-for-admission-after-s2-recommendation/3390)
**Author:** [@Advocacy](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Advocacy)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [5 March 2025 09:19 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/deadline-for-admission-after-s2-recommendation/3390 "2025-03-05T09:19:51Z")
P was placed on s2 in community waiting for a bed. Over a week later still no bed. Are there any timescales to either be admitted or the s2 removed. Thank you --- ## [Lap belt and foot straps -- DOL?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lap-belt-and-foot-straps-dol/3355)
**Author:** [@draig](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/draig)\ **Replies:** 14\ **Last updated:** [4 March 2025 19:35 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lap-belt-and-foot-straps-dol/3355 "2025-03-04T19:35:46Z")
Hi I have a question related to DOLS as to equipment which is medically prescribed but after nearly 30 year we have health concerned they are DOLS. Person is totally dependent and a wheelchair with specialist posture se… --- ## [CTR meetings](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/ctr-meetings/3362)
**Author:** [@Karen](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Karen)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [4 March 2025 08:13 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/ctr-meetings/3362 "2025-03-04T08:13:50Z")
I wondered if anyone else had experienced some actively unhelpful CTR meetings. I have attended a couple which were useful but many others which were potentially damaging. The main problem seems to be that the some Pane… --- ## [Capacity Assessment, Informed Consent and Attorneys](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/capacity-assessment-informed-consent-and-attorneys/2640)
**Author:** [@george](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/george)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [2 March 2025 22:59 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/capacity-assessment-informed-consent-and-attorneys/2640 "2025-03-02T22:59:46Z")
I am very concerned about the way the NHS acute hospitals are undertaking capacity assessments, recording informed consent in medical records and liaising with attorneys. Last year my mother (92 years old, with a diagno… --- ## [Does a Section 2 Tribunal win imply unlawful detention?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-a-section-2-tribunal-win-imply-unlawful-detention/2800)
**Author:** [@Herystote](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Herystote)\ **Replies:** 15\ **Last updated:** [1 March 2025 20:18 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-a-section-2-tribunal-win-imply-unlawful-detention/2800 "2025-03-01T20:18:07Z")
Patient won their tribunal under section 2. I’m unclear on this as there is a lot of input surrounding ‘capacity’ or ‘insight’. If throughout section 2 the patient showed no evidence of a mental disorder or illness and… --- ## [COP DOL, and DOLS standard authorisation](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cop-dol-and-dols-standard-authorisation/2908)
**Author:** [@GemmaH](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/GemmaH)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [7 November 2024 23:16 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cop-dol-and-dols-standard-authorisation/2908 "2024-11-07T23:16:11Z")
Hi all. I have a resident, subject to CD and standard DoLS authorisation. Ongoing transition to supported living and today finally the COP authority has come through. Are both DoLS authorities valid or does the COP trump… --- ## [MHA terminology - help! Registered medical practitioner, AC and RC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-terminology-help-registered-medical-practitioner-ac-and-rc/3337)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [27 February 2025 21:15 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-terminology-help-registered-medical-practitioner-ac-and-rc/3337 "2025-02-27T21:15:14Z")
I don’t often have to wrestle this much with terminology in the MHA 1983(Amended 2007). However, I’m writing up something for patients and relatives to help them understand a few things. So I’m trying to be as accurate a… --- ## [Ambulance removing someone from their property under MCA for psychiatric assessment](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/ambulance-removing-someone-from-their-property-under-mca-for-psychiatric-assessment/2735)
**Author:** [@anon365](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anon365)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [27 February 2025 16:28 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/ambulance-removing-someone-from-their-property-under-mca-for-psychiatric-assessment/2735 "2025-02-27T16:28:37Z")
Hello, I am posting anonymously for this post. I am an AMHP, but this is about a situation where I was a patient, hence why I am posting anonymously. I have Bipolar Disorder and at the beginning of the year I became unw… --- ## [Section 47/49 Absconder](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-47-49-absconder/3347)
**Author:** [@MentalHealthCop](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MentalHealthCop)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [27 February 2025 16:27 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-47-49-absconder/3347 "2025-02-27T16:27:27Z")
I’d previously never given thought to the idea a s47/49 patient, transferred from prison after being convicted for an offence and imprisoned for it, would then be granted authorised leave from hospital. In my hypothetic… --- ## [Tribunal reasons and victims](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-reasons-and-victims/1442)
**Author:** [@MHProfessional](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MHProfessional)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [27 February 2025 16:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/tribunal-reasons-and-victims/1442 "2025-02-27T16:25:13Z")
Maher v First-tier Tribunal (Mental Health) \[2023\] EWHC 34 (Admin) The case highlights the tension between victim rights, against the rights of the individual, in this case a restricted patient. Hundred Families have so… --- ## [Diminished reponsibility and intent](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/diminished-reponsibility-and-intent/800)
**Author:** [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [25 February 2025 12:41 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/diminished-reponsibility-and-intent/800 "2025-02-25T12:41:57Z")
Should a person who has planned and carried out a murder be allowed to argue that a mental disorder had diminished his responsibility for the crime? Interesting case from Singapore. Is there anything similar from the c… [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=13)