# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=11 [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) **Page:** 12 --- ## [Rule 35 paper hearing and capacity ](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rule-35-paper-hearing-and-capacity/3547)
**Author:** [@Balmullo](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Balmullo)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [15 April 2025 14:21 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rule-35-paper-hearing-and-capacity/3547 "2025-04-15T14:21:35Z")
With hospital based references, I understand that as from December 2024, a paper hearing can be requested under Rule 35. I read the rule as not being relevant where the patient lacks capacity. I have been appointed under… --- ## [S.117 & "incapacity"](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s-117-incapacity/3563)
**Author:** [@ZacSussex](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ZacSussex)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [14 April 2025 19:28 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s-117-incapacity/3563 "2025-04-14T19:28:30Z")
For practitioners acquainted with the decision in R(Afework) - have you ever had any experience with LAs/ICBs pushing back on providing S.117-funded accommodation because the patient doesn’t meet the third “condition” (b… --- ## [Section 117 responsibility when patient changes GP in hospital](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-responsibility-when-patient-changes-gp-in-hospital/3454)
**Author:** [@Shirley.brennan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Shirley.brennan)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [14 April 2025 17:38 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-responsibility-when-patient-changes-gp-in-hospital/3454 "2025-04-14T17:38:46Z")
Continuing the discussion from ICB commissioning responsibility for detained patients: I have only just joined and still unsure how or where to ask questions but this post is pertinent to the question I wish to ask if s… --- ## [Lawfulness of ward with no RMN on shift](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-ward-with-no-rmn-on-shift/3542)
**Author:** [@MoiraG](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MoiraG)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [14 April 2025 08:24 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lawfulness-of-ward-with-no-rmn-on-shift/3542 "2025-04-14T08:24:35Z")
Can anyone advise what are the possible legal consequences of a Trust consistently running mental health hospital wards without a registered mental health nurse on shift? i.e. only general nurse present. --- ## [Risks of whistleblowing](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/risks-of-whistleblowing/3557)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [13 April 2025 23:25 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/risks-of-whistleblowing/3557 "2025-04-13T23:25:35Z")
Yes - but nobody dares to blow the whistle - so the chance of the CQC finding out is pretty small. On a related note: In the last 3 years I have seen all sorts of illegality happening in Trusts that are ‘not seen’ by t… --- ## [Assessment under the MHA whilst under arrest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/assessment-under-the-mha-whilst-under-arrest/3559)
**Author:** [@dan2023](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/dan2023)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [12 April 2025 10:15 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/assessment-under-the-mha-whilst-under-arrest/3559 "2025-04-12T10:15:09Z")
Can someone be assessed under the Mental Health Act whilst under arrest or do they need to be de-arrested first and/or put on a S136? Also, can they be arrested and brought to A&E for assessment whilst still under arrest… --- ## [Section 47/49 female lifer still detained 2 years after winning tribunal -- what type of solicitor needed?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-47-49-female-lifer-still-detained-2-years-after-winning-tribunal-what-type-of-solicitor-needed/3432)
**Author:** [@tb1000892](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/tb1000892)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [9 April 2025 15:20 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-47-49-female-lifer-still-detained-2-years-after-winning-tribunal-what-type-of-solicitor-needed/3432 "2025-04-09T15:20:44Z")
Hello. I am looking for some advice. As a female life sentanced prisoner 6 years over tariff i am currently in a low secure hospital awaiting discharge. I have no parole date yet and have been told i am not entitled to a… --- ## [Does RC cover out of hours have to be provided by someone AC-approved?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-rc-cover-out-of-hours-have-to-be-provided-by-someone-ac-approved/3552)
**Author:** [@Anon22](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Anon22)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [8 April 2025 18:05 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-rc-cover-out-of-hours-have-to-be-provided-by-someone-ac-approved/3552 "2025-04-08T18:05:07Z")
Does anyone know if is it a legal requirement that on call cover is provided by someone AC-approved? (independent hospital, no acute wards) --- ## [Trust delaying access to records for weeks despite client authority and tribunal directions](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/trust-delaying-access-to-records-for-weeks-despite-client-authority-and-tribunal-directions/3521)
**Author:** [@Andy\_Howarth\_2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Andy_Howarth_2)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [8 April 2025 13:21 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/trust-delaying-access-to-records-for-weeks-despite-client-authority-and-tribunal-directions/3521 "2025-04-08T13:21:44Z")
My local Trust is making it increasingly difficult to get access to clients’ notes. Last week I had to represent a s3 client at his Tribunal without having seen his notes at all. I sent the MHAA my client’s signed auth… --- ## [Typo at S.72(1)(b) MHA 1983](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/typo-at-s-72-1-b-mha-1983/3544)
**Author:** [@ZacSussex](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ZacSussex)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [7 April 2025 17:38 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/typo-at-s-72-1-b-mha-1983/3544 "2025-04-07T17:38:32Z")
I’m sure I’m not the only one that’s noticed the minor grammatical error in s.72(1)(b)(ii): that it is necessary for the health of safety of the patient or for the protection of other persons that he should receive suc… --- ## [Section 117 aftercare and how funding is assessed -- is the default a 50/50 split?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-aftercare-and-how-funding-is-assessed-is-the-default-a-50-50-split/3492)
**Author:** [@ma068357](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ma068357)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [7 April 2025 16:05 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-aftercare-and-how-funding-is-assessed-is-the-default-a-50-50-split/3492 "2025-04-07T16:05:32Z")
Good morning, Has anyone ever heard of a rule/law/caselaw that states that the default position on funding for a section 117 patient is default to 50% 50% please? I do not see the point of assessments if this is the cas… --- ## [Level 1 fee for client who does not engage](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/level-1-fee-for-client-who-does-not-engage/3548)
**Author:** [@Amy](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Amy)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [7 April 2025 12:09 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/level-1-fee-for-client-who-does-not-engage/3548 "2025-04-07T12:09:35Z")
Can we claim level 1 fee if we are appointed under Rule 11 7 A, we make an attempt to see the client on the ward, they do not wish to engage, and they are discharged the next day? We did contact the hospital following ou… --- ## [Is patient on s3 following CTO5 revocation?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/is-patient-on-s3-following-cto5-revocation/3543)
**Author:** [@S4mathew](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/S4mathew)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [5 April 2025 16:53 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/is-patient-on-s3-following-cto5-revocation/3543 "2025-04-05T16:53:29Z")
hi we have a patient admitted on CTO recall. CTO 5 has been made to revoke the CTO and but my doubt is about the status of the patient. both recommendation and AMHP report says that he need to be detained. one of my co… --- ## [Can a person be forced to have repeated capacity assessments?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-a-person-be-forced-to-have-repeated-capacity-assessments/3327)
**Author:** [@draig](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/draig)\ **Replies:** 31\ **Last updated:** [4 April 2025 18:02 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/can-a-person-be-forced-to-have-repeated-capacity-assessments/3327 "2025-04-04T18:02:51Z")
Hi question is someone with known and tested capacity be repeatedly tested it people keep asking for more. It feels a bit like they will keep going until they get answers they want to hear. --- ## [MCA case precedents where life-limiting restrictions have been imposed without disclosure or lawful process](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mca-case-precedents-where-life-limiting-restrictions-have-been-imposed-without-disclosure-or-lawful-process/3529)
**Author:** [@Rogerz](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rogerz)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [2 April 2025 14:57 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mca-case-precedents-where-life-limiting-restrictions-have-been-imposed-without-disclosure-or-lawful-process/3529 "2025-04-02T14:57:32Z")
What legal case precedents are there under MCA 2005, in circumstances where life-limiting restrictions have been imposed with the express and admitted intent - of hastening death in imposing EOL death pathway, in causati… --- ## [Independent neuropsychiatric report writer needed](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/independent-neuropsychiatric-report-writer-needed/3528)
**Author:** [@Cheryl](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Cheryl)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [2 April 2025 14:46 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/independent-neuropsychiatric-report-writer-needed/3528 "2025-04-02T14:46:56Z")
I am struggling to find a neuropsychiatrist to complete an independent report for a client detained in Norwich. Can anyone recommend/suggest anyone? --- ## [Daughter assessed as having capacity following suicide attempts](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/daughter-assessed-as-having-capacity-following-suicide-attempts/3522)
**Author:** [@A191](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/A191)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [2 April 2025 14:40 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/daughter-assessed-as-having-capacity-following-suicide-attempts/3522 "2025-04-02T14:40:02Z")
Police accidentally found my daughter in the sea up to her neck Friday night, and they took her to the emergency room. They were looking for someone else. She also can barely walk as on crutches they took her in she the… --- ## [Discharged from CTO and don't want to be subject to s117](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/discharged-from-cto-and-dont-want-to-be-subject-to-s117/3502)
**Author:** [@1964](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/1964)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [30 March 2025 12:36 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/discharged-from-cto-and-dont-want-to-be-subject-to-s117/3502 "2025-03-30T12:36:09Z")
I was released from hospital several years ago…and placed on a CTO… being kept on it because MHT members put into legal documents that I had criminal convictions for various crimes,for which is not true…I continuously c… --- ## [Who should write medical reports for Hospital Managers Hearings?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/who-should-write-medical-reports-for-hospital-managers-hearings/3506)
**Author:** [@MoiraG](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MoiraG)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [1 April 2025 15:23 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/who-should-write-medical-reports-for-hospital-managers-hearings/3506 "2025-04-01T15:23:50Z")
Should medical reports to Hospital Managers Panels always be completed by the R.C. or is it acceptable for someone else to put forward a report instead? --- ## [Does s3 end when patient has been AWOL for six weeks?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-s3-end-when-patient-has-been-awol-for-six-weeks/3511)
**Author:** [@Bear76](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Bear76)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [31 March 2025 14:32 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/does-s3-end-when-patient-has-been-awol-for-six-weeks/3511 "2025-03-31T14:32:14Z")
If someone is on a section 3 can the section be rescinded if the person has been AWOL for 6 weeks even though the section 3 has not expired and the person is still not well? Im being told that according to The Mental H… --- ## [Returning AWOL on s5(2)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/returning-awol-on-s5-2/3514)
**Author:** [@anonymous63](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous63)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [29 March 2025 23:28 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/returning-awol-on-s5-2/3514 "2025-03-29T23:28:16Z")
If someone who is subject to detention under S5(2) absconds from hospital and is deemed as AWOL (s18), and they are found in a private dwelling (their home), what are the powers for removal. My thoughts are that to take… --- ## [Not told about MDT meeting for close relative who you advocate for](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/not-told-about-mdt-meeting-for-close-relative-who-you-advocate-for/3418)
**Author:** [@anon88676405](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anon88676405)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [24 March 2025 22:15 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/not-told-about-mdt-meeting-for-close-relative-who-you-advocate-for/3418 "2025-03-24T22:15:52Z")
If a MDT is held about a close relative who you advocate for, but you\`re not told and left out, is this wrong? --- ## [Unpaid Carer](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/unpaid-carer/3497)
**Author:** [@anon88676405](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anon88676405)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [27 March 2025 08:58 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/unpaid-carer/3497 "2025-03-27T08:58:17Z")
What can be done if you are continuously recorded as an unpaid carer, despite explicitly informing everyone that you are no longer able to fulfill this role? Does it affect the funding? --- ## [How do NR discharge requests work, in particular the 72-hour period?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/how-do-nr-discharge-requests-work-in-particular-the-72-hour-period/3496)
**Author:** [@anonymous59](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous59)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [26 March 2025 21:40 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/how-do-nr-discharge-requests-work-in-particular-the-72-hour-period/3496 "2025-03-26T21:40:52Z")
I am trying to understand this: NR relative can give an order / request for the discharge of patient to the hospital managers no less than 3 days - but if this notice has been given within 3 days; then the RC can ‘furni… --- ## [RC never informed nearest relative of barring report](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rc-never-informed-nearest-relative-of-barring-report/3488)
**Author:** [@osands](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/osands)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [26 March 2025 18:24 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rc-never-informed-nearest-relative-of-barring-report/3488 "2025-03-26T18:24:38Z")
Hello, I am currently under section 3 of the mental health act and I would like help understanding this. My NR filed an NR appeal and it got barred however, the social worker verbally told my NR that it was barred. My ne… --- ## [Repatriation of patient detained in the Netherlands back to the UK](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/repatriation-of-patient-detained-in-the-netherlands-back-to-the-uk/3483)
**Author:** [@SRobs](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/SRobs)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [21 March 2025 12:23 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/repatriation-of-patient-detained-in-the-netherlands-back-to-the-uk/3483 "2025-03-21T12:23:05Z")
Does anyone have any experience in the repatriation of a patient who is currently detained under Dutch MH Law back to the UK. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you --- ## [Equality of Arms or Equality of Risk? Ethical Tensions in Forensic Patient Discharge Decisions](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/equality-of-arms-or-equality-of-risk-ethical-tensions-in-forensic-patient-discharge-decisions/3479)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [18 March 2025 14:34 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/equality-of-arms-or-equality-of-risk-ethical-tensions-in-forensic-patient-discharge-decisions/3479 "2025-03-18T14:34:20Z")
Perhaps the OO case needs discussion from separate perspectives: clinical and risk evaluation. I am fully aware that the UTT was seized of a legal issue stated as “This case is about the issue of “equality of arms” in te… --- ## [New DOLS application needed after legal ownership of hospital changed?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/new-dols-application-needed-after-legal-ownership-of-hospital-changed/3476)
**Author:** [@SCollins](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/SCollins)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [18 March 2025 16:15 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/new-dols-application-needed-after-legal-ownership-of-hospital-changed/3476 "2025-03-18T16:15:48Z")
Morning, So a patient is deprived of their liberty in a community hospital (urgent application made but no assessment completed) There is change in legal ownership of the hospital from NHS body to private provider ove… --- ## [Two concurrent s37/41 hospital orders](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/two-concurrent-s37-41-hospital-orders/3473)
**Author:** [@Amy](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Amy)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [17 March 2025 14:08 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/two-concurrent-s37-41-hospital-orders/3473 "2025-03-17T14:08:55Z")
We have a client who is now subject to two S.37/41 orders - one made in 1997 and a further one made in 2024 for a different offence committed in 2022 for which he was found guilty for recently. How does this work legally… --- ## [Essential Reading: The latest CQC report on the Mental Health Act (15/03/2025)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/essential-reading-the-latest-cqc-report-on-the-mental-health-act-15-03-2025/3475)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [17 March 2025 14:12 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/essential-reading-the-latest-cqc-report-on-the-mental-health-act-15-03-2025/3475 "2025-03-17T14:12:53Z")
Hot off the press is the CQC, ‘Monitoring the Mental Health Act in 2023/24’ (15 March 2025) - Mental Health Law Online. If you have 20 or more hours to spare reading all of it please go right ahead. Alternatively - if li… [Previous page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=12)