# Law and practice **URL:** https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md [Latest](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/latest.md) · [Categories](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/categories.md) · [Tags](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/tags.md) --- ## [About the "Law and practice" category](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/about-the-law-and-practice-category/11)
**Author:** [@MHLO](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MHLO)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [6 October 2020 20:46 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/about-the-law-and-practice-category/11 "2020-10-06T20:46:56Z")
Mental health, mental capacity or related areas of law and practice. --- ## [Section 48/49 MHA if no CPS evidence](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-48-49-mha-if-no-cps-evidence/6222)
**Author:** [@PhilipNweri2](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/PhilipNweri2)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [18 October 2026 12:19 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-48-49-mha-if-no-cps-evidence/6222 "2026-10-18T12:19:28Z")
What happens to S48/49 MHA for a defendant for whom CPS produces no evidence and crown decides is a free man? --- ## [Section 117 and adaptation to bungalow](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-and-adaptation-to-bungalow/6208)
**Author:** [@Kali](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Kali)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [16 October 2026 16:16 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-and-adaptation-to-bungalow/6208 "2026-10-16T16:16:00Z")
Sec37 patient living at mothers one bed council bungalow. Sleeping in a 33 square ft windowless cupboard. Adaptation to make space 57 sq ft with window refused by council. Patient has had no sec 117 care plan in place si… --- ## [Patient safety while awaiting a bed to complete a section 2 recomendation](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/patient-safety-while-awaiting-a-bed-to-complete-a-section-2-recomendation/6198)
**Author:** [@Mitzy](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Mitzy)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [13 October 2026 13:15 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/patient-safety-while-awaiting-a-bed-to-complete-a-section-2-recomendation/6198 "2026-10-13T13:15:04Z")
My son was recently taken to A&E, where a recommendation was made for him to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital under a section 2. I understand that the section 2 could not be implemented until a bed was found. Howev… --- ## [Early post-AGNI court judgments](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/early-post-agni-court-judgments/5968)
**Author:** [@JamesCodling](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/JamesCodling)\ **Replies:** 15\ **Last updated:** [12 October 2026 08:40 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/early-post-agni-court-judgments/5968 "2026-10-12T08:40:27Z")
Here is the link to the recent Oxfordshire County Council v P - Find Case Law - The National Archives Court of Protection case… I personally found most ‘interesting’ paragraphs 16 and 17 which is the analysis as to why t… --- ## [Section 25 barring order -- hospital managers' discretion](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-25-barring-order-hospital-managers-discretion/6192)
**Author:** [@Foxicus](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Foxicus)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [8 October 2026 07:59 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-25-barring-order-hospital-managers-discretion/6192 "2026-10-08T07:59:26Z")
It has been mentioned to me that when hospital managers are hearing a barring order that, even if the dangerousness criteria is not met, they still have discretionary power not to discharge the patient. How is this discr… --- ## [Legal Aid audit -- Level 1 or Level 2 fee](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/legal-aid-audit-level-1-or-level-2-fee/6186)
**Author:** [@SPurkis](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/SPurkis)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [6 October 2026 09:14 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/legal-aid-audit-level-1-or-level-2-fee/6186 "2026-10-06T09:14:49Z")
Hi everyone, We have recently undergone our annual LAA audit, during which one of our files was downgraded from a Level 2 to a Level 1 fee. On the file in question, we had contacted the client’s Nearest Relative and pr… --- ## ["Liable to be detained" confusion](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/liable-to-be-detained-confusion/6179)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [5 October 2026 17:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/liable-to-be-detained-confusion/6179 "2026-10-05T17:03:06Z")
The whole “liable to be detained” concept has always puzzled me. If you’re arguing for a conditional discharge then you will likely be arguing that it’s not appropriate for the patient to be liable to be detained… but yo… --- ## [Where does Cheshire West No. 2 and "valid consent" leave CD(Dep)? And CTOs?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/where-does-cheshire-west-no-2-and-valid-consent-leave-cd-dep-and-ctos/5710)
**Author:** [@ZacSussex](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/ZacSussex)\ **Replies:** 21\ **Last updated:** [1 October 2026 16:03 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/where-does-cheshire-west-no-2-and-valid-consent-leave-cd-dep-and-ctos/5710 "2026-10-01T16:03:05Z")
I’m still digesting the new UKSC case, but it sounds like CD(Dep) provisions are almost completely dead in the water as currently interpreted by the FtT. Cheshire West established an objective test about whether restric… --- ## [Advice wanted on being assessed by CMHT, sectioned and forced to sign financial LPA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/advice-wanted-on-being-assessed-by-cmht-sectioned-and-forced-to-sign-financial-lpa/6126)
**Author:** [@anonymous97](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous97)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [30 September 2026 16:42 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/advice-wanted-on-being-assessed-by-cmht-sectioned-and-forced-to-sign-financial-lpa/6126 "2026-09-30T16:42:31Z")
I experienced a nervous breakdown after severe stress and 111 was contacted. I explained my symptoms and was told it wasnt mental illness go to the GP. I then suddenly had the crisis team coming down. I had no idea what … --- ## [H5 section 3 renewal](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/h5-section-3-renewal/6167)
**Author:** [@sen75](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/sen75)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [28 September 2026 16:02 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/h5-section-3-renewal/6167 "2026-09-28T16:02:16Z")
H5 s3 renewal completed by RC and Staff nurse at Hospital A and addressed to managers of Hospital A. Patient transferred to Hospital B the same day but before Part 4 is signed and the MHAA at Hospital B has signed the p… --- ## [Associate hospital managers and IMHA](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/associate-hospital-managers-and-imha/6158)
**Author:** [@wellsj](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/wellsj)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [24 September 2026 18:32 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/associate-hospital-managers-and-imha/6158 "2026-09-24T18:32:39Z")
A detained patient is due her Associate Hospital Managers hearing. She is said to lack capacity and to have refused to use an IMHA in the past. A referral has been made to the IMHA service, but they are questioning wheth… --- ## [AGNI ruling - paradigm psychiatric settings](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/agni-ruling-paradigm-psychiatric-settings/6135)
**Author:** [@steve-trunk](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/steve-trunk)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [17 September 2026 08:48 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/agni-ruling-paradigm-psychiatric-settings/6135 "2026-09-17T08:48:14Z")
With regard to the paradigm of a prison cell there are also several references to psychiatric settings. In reality the majority of wards now see P being behind double or triple locked doors with the prospect of the MHA… --- ## [Section 133 (Duty of managers of hospitals to inform nearest relative of discharge) in practice](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-133-duty-of-managers-of-hospitals-to-inform-nearest-relative-of-discharge-in-practice/6119)
**Author:** [@LoopyLou](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/LoopyLou)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [16 September 2026 20:47 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-133-duty-of-managers-of-hospitals-to-inform-nearest-relative-of-discharge-in-practice/6119 "2026-09-16T20:47:25Z")
Hi, does anyone know how Section 133 is usually done and what a Nearest Relative can do where their Loved One is being discharged before they are well enough to be sent home and the discharge will actually make the alrea… --- ## [S117 service charge and rent](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-service-charge-and-rent/6056)
**Author:** [@Rax656](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Rax656)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [11 September 2026 09:51 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-service-charge-and-rent/6056 "2026-09-11T09:51:07Z")
I have been discharged from hospital 3 months ago and I’m eligible for s117 aftercare but the council and ICB are not funding my aftercare package. I have been placed without any choice in 24 hour supported accommodation… --- ## [DOLS/Court of Protection order -- advice please](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dols-court-of-protection-order-advice-please/6087)
**Author:** [@Moojie](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Moojie)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [7 September 2026 06:35 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/dols-court-of-protection-order-advice-please/6087 "2026-09-07T06:35:26Z")
My partner had a DoLS due to expire on 4 July 2026. Following s21A proceedings, the Court of Protection authorised an extension of the DoLS to 4 January 2027. The case has since been concluded The LA has subsequently re… --- ## [Monitoring the conditions to which mentally disordered offenders are subject during conditional discharge](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/monitoring-the-conditions-to-which-mentally-disordered-offenders-are-subject-during-conditional-discharge/6068)
**Author:** [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Replies:** 10\ **Last updated:** [3 September 2026 09:14 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/monitoring-the-conditions-to-which-mentally-disordered-offenders-are-subject-during-conditional-discharge/6068 "2026-09-03T09:14:50Z")
Can anyone tell me what is the legal route is to ensure licence conditions are adhered to by mentally disordered offenders not managed by probation? --- ## [MHA assessment quicker than CTO recall? (Also: definition of hospital)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-assessment-quicker-than-cto-recall-also-definition-of-hospital/5890)
**Author:** [@Joolsleeds](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Joolsleeds)\ **Replies:** 30\ **Last updated:** [1 September 2026 16:43 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-assessment-quicker-than-cto-recall-also-definition-of-hospital/5890 "2026-09-01T16:43:08Z")
Can someone explain this to us lay people please? Why is recall under a CTO more difficult or lengthy than a MHAA? --- ## [Nearest Relative - relative visiting from overseas](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-relative-visiting-from-overseas/6051)
**Author:** [@Shazza](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Shazza)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [1 September 2026 10:19 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/nearest-relative-relative-visiting-from-overseas/6051 "2026-09-01T10:19:15Z")
A mother is visiting her daughter detained under s2 of MHA She usually lives in another country. She is visiting on a visa. Can she be considered NR whilst staying in Uk? Patient is being assessed for s3 and has asked … --- ## [Section 117 choice of accommodation](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-choice-of-accommodation/6044)
**Author:** [@MHProfessional](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/MHProfessional)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [27 August 2026 08:11 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/section-117-choice-of-accommodation/6044 "2026-08-27T08:11:27Z")
In Wales, we have a regulation which captures choice, aptly named The Care and Support (Choice of Accommodation) (Wales) Regulations 2015. From my experience, and it is anecdotal, no local authority or Local Health Board… --- ## [Aftercare accommodation and being placed "on an involuntary (in the sense of being incapacitated) basis"](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/aftercare-accommodation-and-being-placed-on-an-involuntary-in-the-sense-of-being-incapacitated-basis/6025)
**Author:** [@Cia](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Cia)\ **Replies:** 6\ **Last updated:** [26 August 2026 12:50 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/aftercare-accommodation-and-being-placed-on-an-involuntary-in-the-sense-of-being-incapacitated-basis/6025 "2026-08-26T12:50:36Z")
Continuing the discussion from Aftercare accommodation and "original condition": Thanks I have noticed that other decisions by the LGSCO including 23 005 368 - Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman also directly li… --- ## [Medical treatment to address future sex offending risk ](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/medical-treatment-to-address-future-sex-offending-risk/6042)
**Author:** [@CaptainWalker](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/CaptainWalker)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [26 August 2026 22:24 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/medical-treatment-to-address-future-sex-offending-risk/6042 "2026-08-26T22:24:06Z")
It’s called Medication to Manage Problematic Sexual Arousal. The short name is MMPSA. Pick up on the story Thousands of sex offenders in England and Wales could get libido-suppressing drugs | Prisons and probation | The … --- ## [LGSCO decision not to investigate](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lgsco-decision-not-to-investigate/5962)
**Author:** [@Andrew](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Andrew)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [26 August 2026 22:16 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/lgsco-decision-not-to-investigate/5962 "2026-08-26T22:16:57Z")
Continuing the discussion from Aftercare accommodation and "original condition": This probably does not link directly to this specific matter, but the form of words used in my contact with LGSCO may be worth a branch of… --- ## [S117/CHC/other entitlement to free mental health care](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-chc-other-entitlement-to-free-mental-health-care/5931)
**Author:** [@alexkutz](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/alexkutz)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [25 August 2026 09:42 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/s117-chc-other-entitlement-to-free-mental-health-care/5931 "2026-08-25T09:42:03Z")
I work with MH residents in a care home setting. My understanding is that S117 only applies to patients admitted to hospital under section 3, but I am wondering whether voluntary admission is now becoming a term used to … --- ## [Mental-health and equality issues in ongoing civil proceedings](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mental-health-and-equality-issues-in-ongoing-civil-proceedings/4485)
**Author:** [@cnp](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/cnp)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [23 August 2026 16:24 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mental-health-and-equality-issues-in-ongoing-civil-proceedings/4485 "2026-08-23T16:24:44Z")
Hello everyone, My case doesn’t fall under the Mental Health Tribunal, but I believe it raises serious issues under mental-health and equality law. I’m hoping someone might be able to signpost me to the right HMCTS cont… --- ## [Aftercare accommodation and "original condition"](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/aftercare-accommodation-and-original-condition/5958)
**Author:** [@Jonathan](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/Jonathan)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [18 August 2026 23:37 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/aftercare-accommodation-and-original-condition/5958 "2026-08-18T23:37:22Z")
In Surrey County Council (LGSCO 25 016 444, 13 May 2026) the LGSCO said in passing that: Accommodation can generally only be part of section 117 aftercare if: … the need for the accommodation arises from, or is related… --- ## [CTO revocation by covering RC who had not assessed patient](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-revocation-by-covering-rc-who-had-not-assessed-patient/5991)
**Author:** [@AmyBooth](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/AmyBooth)\ **Replies:** 11\ **Last updated:** [17 August 2026 08:54 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/cto-revocation-by-covering-rc-who-had-not-assessed-patient/5991 "2026-08-17T08:54:58Z")
Can one covering RC assess for revocation on one day but the next day when the AMHP has agreed a different covering RC sign off the revocation? My thoughts are that an RC cannot sign to revoke if they have not assessed … --- ## [MHA Section 2 or Section 3?](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-section-2-or-section-3/5985)
**Author:** [@markcooper](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/markcooper)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [12 August 2026 12:09 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/mha-section-2-or-section-3/5985 "2026-08-12T12:09:02Z")
I train AMHPs and have become increasingly involved in discussions about how paragraphs 14.26 to 14.29 of the MHA Code should be applied when deciding whether Section 2 or Section 3 should be used as the initial admissio… --- ## [Detention in A&E under MCA -- while waiting for bed after MHA assessment](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/detention-in-a-e-under-mca-while-waiting-for-bed-after-mha-assessment/5192)
**Author:** [@anonymous53](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/anonymous53)\ **Replies:** 14\ **Last updated:** [5 August 2026 12:53 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/detention-in-a-e-under-mca-while-waiting-for-bed-after-mha-assessment/5192 "2026-08-05T12:53:49Z")
Quick question, patient in A&E: Two medical recommendations for detention under S2 have been completed, AMHP cannot complete the application because no bed is available Patient tried to leave, police were called and wa… --- ## [RoL in the absence of DoL (and the safeguards)](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rol-in-the-absence-of-dol-and-the-safeguards/5971)
**Author:** [@RuthM](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/u/RuthM)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [3 August 2026 06:44 UTC](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/t/rol-in-the-absence-of-dol-and-the-safeguards/5971 "2026-08-03T06:44:29Z")
Apologies if this is slightly off-topic, but increasingly I see AGNI as presenting opportunities as well as risks. That was not my initial reaction. My first concern was reduction safeguards for some of the most vulnerab… [Next page](https://forum.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/c/law-and-practice/5.md?page=1)